Need some help from you Advanced wood men/women please

Page 3 of 4  

Amused wrote:

But whether it's more or less than appropriate depends on which activity, methinks... :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

... and how do you separate this as being any different from being engaged in a conversation with a passenger in the automobile? That also is an active vs. passive activity. Do you really want to go down the path of making the car a sterile environment?
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Big differences really. If I'm listening to the radio or talking with a passenger, I can just tune them out or not reply when my attention is needed on the road. Phone conversations though, tend to take more concentration and the phone user is less likely to mentally swap brain power to the road ahead while they are giving tech support, taking an order, getting instructions, etc.
The passenger may even see the upcoming traffic, the sudden turn, the big splash from a truck and actually shut up knowing you need to concentrate on driving. The phone caller does not see any of that.
Many of us look at our cars as our private space to do as we please. Eat breakfast, read the paper,shave, make sales calls, all while trying to drive. Some of these tasks take more attention than others. Traffic and road conditions vary too, but not everyone puts away the phone when they are severe.
US phone companies will not give up their call records, but a study was done inAustrailia that showed an increase in accident rates for phone users. This was published in the Hartford Courant a couple of months ago. I don't think they should be banned, but drivers must use a lot of caution and common sense and know when to put the phone away.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I drove a medical transport van for six years around a large-ish Midwestern city. (Non-emergency. No lights. No siren).
I've personally witnessed people blowing right through red lights and stop signs while they were obviously engaged in telephone conversations. I saw one lady that drove up over the curb(!), and the look of surprise when she found herself in the median was priceless. I've seen people drift across lanes on high-speed expressways, obviously more engaged in their conversation rather than driving. I've seen any number of near collisions (and a couple of actual collisions) when an unexpected showdown occurs and following drivers were slow to react.
Any number of times, I've personally witnessed one of the MOST dangerous situations, and that's someone stopped at red light, totally engaged in conversation to the point that they never notice when the light changes green. They sit, 'till someone blasts their horn, then they, involuntarily, slam the gas pedal down, charging across/into the intersection, without ever looking to see if that green light is now yellow, or even red.
When I started driving the van, I would chatter on my cell phone as much as anyone. Slowly, it became apparent that me that I (a trained, specially licensed, highly experienced driver) was every bit as distracted by the cell phone as anyone else. I no longer talk on the phone and drive at the same time. If the conversation is important to make the phone call, it's important enough for me to give it my full attention, and pull out of traffic.....
If the conversation is not important enough to pull out of traffic, it's not important enough to have in the first place. (Part of the problem, I'd surmise, is that you'll never be able to predict in any conversation, when something is said that literally demands your full attention, for whatever reason. I'd also advance the idea that with the increase in just plain scary drivers, there has been a corresponding increasing in frustrated drivers, i.e. road rage.)
And yes, I've seen people that were also distracted by....
Changing CD's/or radio stations... Reading papers across their steering wheel.... Putting on makeup... Arguing with kids...especially in the back seat. Cleaning their glasses...blind Drunk... Stoned... Incompetent/daydreaming
But for sheer volume of poor/dangerous driving practices...nothing (with the possible exception of driving drunk) rivals the cell phone. People talking on a cell phone are every bit as imparted as a drunk driver.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:40:15 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

How much have accident rates risen in the last few years?
I drop my kids off at school daily and I estimate that at least a third if not more of the drivers are on their cell phones throughout the whole process. (my question is "who do you call at 7:00 in the morning for a long chat?") If driving while on your cell phone is as dangerous as all the research indicates we should be seeing dramatic increases in accident rates.
No harm, no foul.
I don't have quick access to those statistics, but I am guessing that if there really was a significant increase it would be all over the news. Human beings really are remarkably good at multi-tasking.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't have access to the stats either .. but I've seen a couple of pretty well controlled experimental studies. The one that sticks out in my mind was done with drivers on a closed track, and sensors to monitor head and eye position.
The drivers did the course with no/minimal distraction, then while talking casually on the phone, then while being asked over the phone to do some very simple calculations.
The difference in awareness (by virtue of eye movement) was pretty remarkable.
My takeaway? There's alot of 'close calls' (pun intended) caused by cell phone use. (And other distraction, too -- radio, kids in the backseat, what-have-you).
Me, -- I don't talk on the cell while driving; and since my safety depends at least somewhat on the ability of those driving around me -- I don't think they should be either.
--
Regards,

JT
Speaking only for myself....
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:59:18 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas

Controlled tests are all very fine, but if they don't actually translate into the real world they don't mean anything. I'll go out on a limb here and guess that the people who are badly distracted by talking on the cell phone are simply substituting one distraction for another. They would be just as distracted if they were in a sterile driving environment with no outside interference - they'd just be focusing their attention on the nice load of QSWO in the back of the truck instead of their driving.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If you're driving and looking for an unfamiliar address, do you turn the volume on the radio/stereo down?
--
Life. Nature's way of keeping meat fresh. -- Dr. Who

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I hope to God that I'M using a tablesaw at 70.
Father is still using one at 72, and I'll admit that he doesnt' have much stamina. But he can still rip timber. Just not much at a time.
I'm planning on being a woodworking geezer into my 80's.
Bill
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

My Dad will turn 82 this next month. Been living alone since his wife passed away in Jan.2001. This last June, he calls and tells me to come get his tools, he has sold his house and is moving into an assisted living facility. So I rent a big van and drive out to Arizona from Iowa and get him settled and the van loaded with all his tools. Now let me tell you that this van is squatting when we are finished loading it, it is full. Two weeks ago I get this letter from my Dad telling me he has found love again with a woman about 60 years old living in the same facility and they have a lot in common, been dating up a storm, blah, blah, blah. Now I just know that they are gonna get married, settle down, buy a house together and Dad will want his tools back. Well, I will have room in *my* shop again.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You need to get upwards towards a thousand dollars ready to go. IMO Grizzly is the best bang for the buck, right now, but that can be legitimately debated. Watch the fence. The Shop Fox fences are adequate, and will give good service, but if you could scrape together a bit more money, I'd upgrade to Biesemeyer or a one of the clones.
www.grizzly.com
Hint: I have the 1023ZX. It ships at right at a 500 pounds. The sheer mass of that saw dampens vibration, and allows even smoother cuts. However, as long as you jump to the "cabinet" saw nomenclature, you're probably going to get better performance over the "contractor" set up. That said, the high end contractor's saws will give essentially the same performance as a good cabinet saw, but they end up costing essentially the same, too.
Hint: Figure out where you're going to set that saw and then take the time to stabilize and level it perfectly. You can buy trolleys to move them around, (I have one), but a solid, well stabilized saw really is the goal.
Hint: The saw blade is a limiting factor on any saw. The better the blade, the better the cut, and while it's not always a direct relationship (!!!!!!), generally the more expensive the blade the better the cut.
Matching the blade to the cuts to be made, is worthwhile, too. I have one super-dooper odd ball blade, specifically designed to cut plastics and melamine. It works marvously on those materials. (It's some kind of triple bevel setup. With care feeding of stock, I can get perfectly smooth results with little or no chipping.) Doesn't handle everyday crosscut/rip duties worth squat. The top line blades are probably going to exceed $100 in cost. You can get by with less and I certainly do, but I keep one or two of the top line blades in reserve when the job calls for it.
Hint: I like blade stabilizers. They're cheap.
Hint: The best fences invariably lock down, ONLY in the front. That way, you can add extensions to the outfeed, at a later time. The Shop Fox locks in both the front and back and while my SF fence always locks parallel and straight, it's still a PITA because I can't figure a way to make a outfeed extension without some serious work.
http://www.woodpeck.com/tslssystem.html This is a helluva of a system, but it still suffers from the same shortcomings as the Shop Fox fence, i.e. front and back lock. On the other hand, I have a Incra miter gauge that is worth every penny, I paid for it.
http://www.biesemeyer.com/home_fence/index.htm I'm going out on a limb here, but this is probably the "gold standard" in fences, right now. (Alternate opinions are certainly possible here. In fact, I'd welcome some alternate opinions.)
While I don't know where, there *has* to be some kind of commercial relationship between Shop Fox and Grizzly.
James... It's free advise, so you know what it's worth......nothing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

address in Washington.
Chris
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
-snip-

-snip again-
The standard SF fence that came with my 1023SL locks only in the front. There were discussions here about the differences between the "standard" and "deluxe" fence. IIRC, most felt the standard was better in that the deluxe was too fussy to keep right. I am very happy with the standard - it is rock solid and true.
Lou
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
loutent wrote:

I didn't realize that there was a Shop Fox fence that clamped in the back, but indeed some of the saws in the catalog have a dual clamping fence.
Most of the Grizzly table saws ship with the Shop Fox Classic or the Aluma Classic fence. These are Bies clones that lock only in the front. The Aluma Classic came on my G0444Z contractor saw. Thoe only difference that I can see is the material on the face. Let's face it, part of the reason the Bies is so good is its simplicity, which makes it easy to copy. I'd bet good money that the Shop Fox copies are every bit as good as the real Bies fences. The guide and clamping mechanism is extremely solid, and it can be tuned to perfection. What else do you need?
Tom
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Garbage.
Don't let a few opinions turn you away from a fence that locks down front and back. I own an Excalibur that locks down both sides and I'll match it cut for cut any day with a Bies or clone of a Bies fence. Bies fences just happen to be more popular. That doesn't for one second mean that all others are no good. Go and decide for yourself.
My Excalibur is easy to set up, maintains its accuracy quite well and doesn't interfere in the least with an outfeed table. The space need for the 1" wide back rail doesn't effect outfeed to a table at all. There's advantages and disadvantages (small ones in both cases) to both types.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

The original observation was mine. If you'll re-read the whole thing, you'll see that I commented that my Shop Fox fence always locked down straight and parallel, which is what it's suppose to do. I have absolutely no complaint about the fence itself.
My observation was that with any fence, (I've ever seen) that locked in both the front and back, it is extremely difficult to build extension tables out the back of the saw. With my fence, there with simply have to be a six inch gap between the saw and any extension table I might create.
(I was unaware that Shop Fox, at least now, has a fence that locks only in the front.)
My observation was that I wish I had popped for a few extra dollars and bought the Biesemeyer......
Clear now.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hint: You DON'T need to spend a thousand dollars on your saw.
Get a contractors saw with a CAST IRON TOP. I got mine for around 300 bucks americano. Works like a champ.
My shop and some older projects:
http://home.triad.rr.com/brianmelissa/woodworking_frames.htm

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have to rethink my original answer. I think the others are saying the same as well. There is a huge difference between another contractor saw, and a cabinet saw, and your price range is a little low for a cabinet. I thought it was close to a 1023 Grizzly, but my memory is getting weak. At that price you are still looking at contractor style saw. There are plenty of options out there, and Grizzly is still one of them. Grizzly does seem to prevail even more when it comes to cabinet saws.
I would use what you have now and save for a cabinet saw, or look for a used one local. For your price range you could get a decent used cabinet saw. FWIIW cabinet saws always seem to have a higher resale value if you plan to bail.
If you are really going to use the thing, a cabinet saw is the way to go.
Chris
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The is also a huge difference between a bench top saw (which he has now) and a contractor's saw.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Very true. I tend to think of them as the same (benchtop and contractor), even though they really not.
Chris
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.