Need help identifying & locating moulding

Tracing of profile:
http://www.milmac.com/images/Moulding.jpg
I need about thirteen feet of this, but I don't know what it is. The best the guys at our local *real* lumberyard (i.e. not a big box retailer) can do is a brick mould that is the right width, but noticeably thinner with a diferent profile -- close enough that with the original moulding on one end of the house, and that stuff on the other end, nobody will ever notice, but definitely not anywhere nearly close enough to mix on the *same* gable end.
Thus the only alternative so far, if I can't find anything to match this, is to replace *all* the moulding on that gable end, about 34 feet of it, with the brick mould from the local yard. At six bucks a foot.
I'm not liking that idea too much, and I'd welcome better ones.
I have a shaper, and a 2.5HP table-mounted router, so am not opposed to making it myself if I can find an appropriate cutter. I think I can mill my own from poplar, soft maple, or something similar for around two dollars a foot -- which would make me more comfortable with replacing all 34 feet.
Anybody know what this moulding profile is called? Or where I can get it? Or where I can find a shaper cutter or router bit that will make a similar profile?
Thanks in advance.
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Or if it were me, I would think that this is just the time to make that new router duplicating machine I have been thinking about building. Then I could take down a stick of the old profile, and start duplicating!
--
Jim in NC


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If you get close, maybe you can make a profiled scraper (they have a name, I can't remember it) and finish the job. A piece of old saw blade can make a pretty decent scraper, but if you're doing more than a couple feet it'll get tiring fast.
I'm sure someone will have a name if I describe what I'm thinking of. A piece of metal is filed to the profile desired and then scraped along the wood to reveal the exact profile you're looking for.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 00:22:21 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

it cost to have a set of shaper knives ground from your pattern?? There are so many different "colonial" profiles finding one to match will likely be a problem. Could have been locally made by some company no longer in business.
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On 02 Jul 2014 02:39:17 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 00:22:21 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

I'll second what clare said about colonial casing.
Try here for a start:
http://www.colonialmanufacturing.com/products/pine-hardwood-mouldings/pine-casings/asymmetrical-casings
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Doug - you are up against it. If you buy a molding kit of good bits for yo ur shaper, you will spend about $400. No doubt you would need more than on e bit to make that profile, but even if you came up with something that onl y required two bits, good shaper bits are usually about $100 (plus or minus ) a piece. Regardless, your new moldings will NOT match the profile you ha ve and you will have a quite an investment in bits and wood to make 34' of molding.
The bad news is that if you found an EXACT match of that profile, it still won't match. The cutters for making these moldings are cut and ground to a n exact size, and then sharpened/reground as needed. Each sharpening remov es a bit more metal, then a bit more, until the molding only closely resemb les the first runs from the same bit. Side by side, not the same.
Different molding manufacturers make close approximations of classic patter ns, but they do not match one another's moldings in dimensions or profile. You can see where this is going; chances of anything close a match is almo st impossible. Chances of you buying cutters that would duplicate the exac t profile are almost impossible.
As a contractor that does this kind of thing, I would simply buy the moldin g. If it was not thick enough, then I would simply add a piece of thick la th on the back to get it where I needed it to be.
When I run into something like you have, and need to repair more visible ar eas with one of a kind moldings, doors, windows, or anything else like that , I remove what I need from a less conspicuous area. Could you take the mo lding carefully off one side and use it on the other, then only buy what yo u need after that?
Regardless, that is some really CHUNKY molding. You would be making it out of 2X4 stock if you did it yourself, so I would wonder about the $2 a foot cost. At any rate, looking at the size of the stock needed, the purchase of cutters, the inability to match the profile needed EXACTLY and the time it would take to do it, I would just buy it and be done with it.
Robert
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On 7/1/2014 11:14 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Exactly what I do. I occasionally get lucky finding a molding match when the lumber yard in the town where the house is located is still in business, but that is getting more and more unlikely.
This small BR remodel earlier this year, in a house 90 years old in the Heights area of Houston, the owner wanted base, shoe, casing and crown to exactlymatch the 90 year old existing:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopBRRemodel2014?noredirect=1#
The deceptively simple crown was my only worry as the rest was easily duplicated with off the shelf material and, sure enough, six blocks away was the lumber yard/building supply company that had been in business when the house was built, and they were still milling that exact crown profile ... no one else in town had a match that was close enough to cope and fit.
IME, brick moulding patterns are, if not standard, at least widely used and can usually be matched pretty closely, but I've never seen one like Doug's profiles. It appears to be custom.
--
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On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 8:25:19 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

A one in a million shot! It is good for people to speculate about getting something close, or making something close, or modifying something close, a s they simply don't understand what it takes to make a really good joint in molding.
^^Close^^ might as well be a total miss. Many years ago we had an old, old lumberyard that specialized in moldings, and from time to time you could g o over there and find something they had left from years ago. This place w as old enough they actually made all their own moldings (except large crown ) from clear white pine, starting back in the early 1920s. They had a gian t old 12" table saw, a 12" radial saw (the same DeWalt ALL lumberyards had pre HD) and a couple of home made sanders. Try matching their moldings! T hey had an old man that sharpened the cutter heads with little stones every few hundred feet!
It was suggested somewhere in this thread that Doug have cutter heads made. I had a client that insisted that his moldings match exactly, and he was "willing" to pay for cutter heads to be made. There is only one place here in the city that will do that, and they charge by the size of the bit made , and his was $1200. OK, but it was only for a couple of hundred feet of s mall crown. After that, he still needed to buy the wood, have it cut sande d and prepped before running the profile, and then pay them to do the handl ing.
He decided within 30 minutes of the quote from them that a new profile woul d be acceptable, and the new profile would become a "feature of the room" r ather than blend in.

I agree. I haven't see one that wide before. I have personally made extra wide crown before with saw and router, but didn't have to match anything w hen I did it.
Robert
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On 7/2/2014 12:30 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You're right, it's rare that you get that lucky.
On that job above, and as the new stuff was ever so slightly different (your aforementioned sharpened cutter heads in action), I carefully saved the old crown and used enough of it to cope to the inside butt on the adjacent walls that still had the existing old crown
Used the old stuff all the way to first outside corner miter; where I transitioned to the new stuff, and it was off to the races.
Just a couple of gentle swipes at that outside corner joint with a file made the new crown perfectly match the old.
--
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On Wednesday, July 2, 2014 1:02:11 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

Nice! It's great when it works. And for me there is a certain satisfactio n out of using some crafting skills like you point out above. Sadly, unles s it is a one of a kind job with pretty big piggy bank, we don't so much of that kind of work these days.
And at the cost of labor... yikes! It is too expensive to match up molding s and installation patterns so we wind up replacing most of the time. Besi des, unless I do it myself I only have one "go to" guy that I can call to d o really good job site moldings and trims.
Robert
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email.me:

moulding this way, though...
Looks like I'll probably have to suck it up and replace all 34 feet on that gable end. :-(
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On 7/2/2014 6:09 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

And might this be an exterior application? You will want to use a weather resistant material and probably painted on all four sides if so.
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The profile ofthe colonial molding here is close, no idea about the dimensons... http://www.koskowoodproducts.com/profiles.asp
I doubt you'll find cutters or a bit for it but one should be able to get very close with standard router bits. I could do it with a saw and multiple passes with bits I already have...2 sizes of 1/4 round, a point cutting round over and a largish core box bit. Cost maybe $0.40 per foot using white wood 2x4s, around $2.00/ft with poplar.
--

dadiOH
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On 7/2/2014 6:09 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

<http://www.truittandwhite.com/~truittwh/sites/default/files/uploads/twmoulding_and_add-web.pdf <http://www.dykeslumber.com/wp-content/themes/dykeslumber/Dykes%20Moulding%20Catalog%202012.pdf <http://www.curtislumber.com/pdf/mouldingcatalog.pdf There are many others available as well...I've not searched inside any of these for your specific brick-mould but wouldn't be surprised if you look extensively you'd find something pretty close.
The old Stanley #45 combination moulding plane is the cats' meow for such things...
<http://www.antiquetools.com/perm-col/south-wing/stanley41-45.html If you were around the corner you could drop by here and use mine...
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web.pdf>

20Catalog%202012.pdf>

I have been looking extensively, including at all three of those sites, without finding anything that matches closely enough to avoid needing to replace the entire gable. :-(
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message

I'd anticipate that a large full service millwork shop would have a millwork catalog that lists/shows pretty much every molding ever made... A molding/shaper cutter manufacturer such as W&H may have such a catalog also--they've been at it a long time!
Since you have a shaper it may be worth identifying a long standing shaper cutter manufacturer and send them your sketch to see if they can identify the standard molding number. They can likely provider cutters for either the entire profile or the middle section (in the latter case the table saw and round over cutters would suffice for the "edges"). It may not be the cheapest solution but from a satisfaction standpoint it may be the best! I speak from experience here as I've ordered molding knifes to make single picture frames to get just the right look!
John
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"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
BTW, I believe that is known as a shingle molding...
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On 7/2/2014 11:42 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Well, they are probably at least another 10 or more besides those online; never meant that to be an exhaustive list.
Or, go to a local small mill shop and see if they'll custom-run it for you if it's that important to actually match. Then again, for only such a small run they'll probably want enough of a set-up fee that it'll not be worth it.
Alternatively, given the size you might have reasonable luck in getting close looking at casing profiles and then getting the thickness by gluing to a solid backer section instead of looking for the full brick mould. Using a polyurethane or resorcinol glue or epoxy will give plenty of weather resistance; likely in a gable area with good primer/paint even TB-III would work but for this purpose I'd go w/ one of the former instead.
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