Motor Reversing

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On 10/14/2010 12:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Maybe so, but that sounds like asking for trouble!
Bill
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On 10/14/10 11:17 AM, Bill wrote:

How? Really. :-)
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On 10/14/2010 12:44 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I'll defer to your wisdom and experience which is surely more vast than mine. My limited experience and intuition tells me "something is wrong in that picture"... : )
Bill
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On 10/14/10 11:58 AM, Bill wrote:

And here I thought usenet for was for sharing ideas and learning from one another. How silly of me.
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On 10/14/2010 1:47 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

The problem with me sharing something about this is that someone might (conceivably, if they had been drinking, perhaps...) think I know what I'm talking about. I was just thinking about all of the bicycles I've seen that had a brake pad on just one side...
It couldn't be any good for the bearings (on the motor on the TS), huh?
Bill
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On 10/14/10 1:09 PM, Bill wrote:

That is a completely irrelevant comparison.
Look at the forces involved. A bicycle brake is dealing with what I might speculate to be 1000x the force. 200lbs at 25+mph is a lot momentum and those little pads do quite a good job at it.
A coasting 10" saw blade along with whatever mass is added to it by the arbor assembly is stopped in a couple seconds by light pressure applied to the side of the blade with a 1cc section of mdf. I do it all the time. I could probably use my finger.
Try stopping a bike going down hill with that little piece of mdf pressed lightly against the wheel. Won't happen. :-)

The arbor on my Delta is a pretty massive item. In another post, I stated that I would put the pad closer to the arbor, *just in case.* However, the arbor bearings that couldn't handle the little amount of pressure it would take to slow down a coasting saw blade wouldn't last very long on a table saw in its normal operation.
Grinding wheel arbors and extensions don't seem to be affected by forces much, much greater than what I've considering.
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On 10/14/2010 1:47 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I read this on the Internet:     ... avoid unnecessary stress on the motor or arbor bearings.
Bill
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On 10/14/2010 1:11 PM, Bill wrote:

Now you're reading this on the internet, which also makes it true:
The force applied to the blade near the arbor by a small bicycle brake caliper is going to be far less stressful on the arbor bearings than some gnarly nasty piece of wood that's twisting into the blade at the outer perimeter while you're trying to cut it. When you have a piece of wood that's binding on the blade and you cut power to the motor, think of how little time it actually takes for the blade to stop. What, a second or two maybe? That's all I would be asking for in a convenience brake; to stop the blade within a second or two, rather than the 10 or 15 seconds (or longer on some saws) it takes for the blade to stop by itself, and it's not going to take that much pressure to get it done. And as you've also read on the internet, it's pretty common practice for people to stop the blade by shoving a piece of wood up against it from the side; I'd imagine that would also put more stress on the arbor bearings than an inboard brake caliper.
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wrote:

You NEVER put side loads on a saw blade , particularly when running at speed.
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On 10/14/10 2:24 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

1. It wouldn't be running. 2. What I'm talking about could hardly be considered a load.
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wrote:

Mike, typical caliper pads are unloaded by the play in the wheel bearings and a bit of runout on the disc. Unless you have some wobble in the blade, the pads will continue to drag on the blade. Just one more thing to work out. Build self-retracting pad retractors and... You'll be rich!
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 16:47:14 -0700, Larry Jaques

The design of a hydraulic brake caliper IS self retracting - based on the flex in the square section "O" rings that seal the piston in the bore.
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:04:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Only to an engineer in an office, not in real life.
Go jack up a disc braked car and spin the wheel. Now climb inside and give the brake pedal a good stomp. Then spin the wheel again. You'll find that they're not quite self-retracting. A quick pop on the side (top or bottom) of the tire with your hand will release it, though.
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On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 09:44:09 -0700, Larry Jaques

A dual piston or 4 piston caliper will release virtually immediately. A single piston caliper will release the inside pad immediately, and depending on the slider design, can also release the outer pad immediately (rubber bushed pin type sliders) Those with metal plate type sliders will not release the outside pad without a bit of "external help" - and if those sliders are corroded and/or inadequately lubricated, often not even WITH significant external help.
If you get corrosion on the pistons, or crud buildup around the piston, the self retracting is a lot less effective.
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On 10/16/10 6:47 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Please note that I never bought in to the caliper thing, before you include me in an argument I've opted out of. :-)
I am still talking about a bicycle style spring and/or solenoid/magnetic brake.
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wrote:

Wull, nevermindthen.
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On 10/14/2010 11:15 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

That very well could be true, and you could also use such a brake with dado blades of any thickness... Interesting observation there Mike; I'm gonna have to go do some peeking inside my Unisaw to see what the possibilities are. :-)
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On 10/14/10 11:27 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

Good. It's about time that happens to someone *else.* Let me know what you come up with so I can take credit for it. :-)
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On 10/14/2010 11:47 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Well, peek I did, but it seems the opportunities for mounting such a device, on the Unisaw at least, are virtually nil. There are just too many clearance problems to overcome. However, it does seem possible that I could mount a thin disc to the motor pulley (one that's a couple of inches larger in diameter) and apply caliper pressure to that instead. The calipers would have to be mounted to a bracket that attaches to the motor housing, but that shouldn't be too hard to accomplish.
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On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 11:57:58 -0500, Steve Turner

Like I said.

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