Mortising and tenoning doors and windows

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Who but Festool'ers would even care? ;)
nb
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On 9/25/2016 3:21 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

find it less expensive elsewhere. Sooo you normally get to buy it from whom ever you want, normally.
Fortunately most all sellers of Festool ship for free. If Woodcraft could get it with in a week or so, would that be too late? Just in case the Domino did not suite you it would probably be easier on you to return to the local Woodcraft vs. shipping back some where else. Just a thought.
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@swbelldotnet says...

Well, the other Woodcraft had it. Just a point of information but the first one I went to had just sold their last 700 to some guy who returned a 500 for credit towards it.
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On 9/18/2016 5:37 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

The question was NOT about making tenons. But whether a wider mortise can be cut with the Domino by making multiple, _or overlapping_ , cuts (one and a half or two passes), with its usual ease and precision??
On 9/18/2016 8:57 AM, Leon wrote: > It is relatively easy to make a tenons but not so much, precisely > sized. A > little to thin and alignment problems on mating pieces show up.
Buying them is indeed more convenient, but I seriously question whether it is less expensive, or more precise. ;)
IME, cutting precise fitting floating tenons is no more difficult than cutting precisely dimensioned, in width and thickness, project stock.
For the projects I do, like the chair reproductions, custom sized joinery has the same obvious benefits of any custom made endeavor over built in.
I personally like the fact that I can size the joinery as precisely for the project dimensions as I can, as if I were cutting the mortise and tenon joinery by hand.
With the added plus that the tenons will be of the same species, and with matching grain characteristics, which arguably benefits the strongest possible glue joint.
I'm aware that is putting a fine point on it, but, after all, putting a fine point on things is how we both have been able to make a living doing what we do. LOL
>> If the need arose is there any reason you can't cut a wider mortise >> with >> the domino (say one and a half or two passes) and make your own >> tenons?
> No, I have cut wider slots but not for wider tenons. I cut wider > slots for screws to slide in.
Your "No" Sounds more like a "Yes" to my question?
Let me rephrase:
Can the Domino easily be used to facilitate, at least in in part, the custom aspect remarked upon above by using it to cut wider, _custom_ width mortises?
IOW, wider than its built-in width capacity; and, equally importantly, with its customary ease and accuracy?
Not arguing ... mine is a valid question, as I'm once again considering trading in my Multi-Router for a Domino to free up some shop space ... I'm tripping over every damned thing in the shop these days.
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On 9/18/2016 12:32 PM, Swingman wrote:

How much is your time worth? ;~) How much would you charge me to make 6,000 5mm x 30mm tennons with impressions on both sides?

True but there will be trials to get the "just right fit" each time you decide to make more tenons.

And for specific cases, making custom sized tenons is a worthwhile process. But for routine mortises the standard sized Domino tenons will suffice a majority of the time. I was not meaning to say that making "custom sized" tenons is not worthwhile so much as making the exact same sized as what you can easily buy is not so much of a time or money saver.

;~)

I'm breaking down your sentence....
is there any reason you can't cut a wider mortise with the domiono.....
No, there is no reason you can't cut a wider mortise with the domino. ;~)

Yes, you can cut a complete dado or groove all the way across or down the edge of a board if you want so making a wider mortise than the machine is normally set to cut is no issue.
The procedure is simply to move the domino the amount you want and make an additional plunge. The add on accessory kit which adds indexing wings on both sides of the Domino will aid in placement. I would say that cutting a "PRECISE" wider width mortise might be a bit problematic in some cases. IMHO it would be prudent to count on making the mortise slightly wider than the actual width of the tenon. Something I do on every one of my mating joints.

Well you are welcome to play with my Domino and get the feel and perhaps I could better explain how you might go after some of your custom sized mortises.
When I got my Domino it happened to not be "PERFECTLY" calibrated for width of the mortise in relation to being centered between the indexing pins. I talked to Feestool and they agreed to re-calibrate it within weeks of buying it.
BUT they advised me how I can get around this situation should it become a problem in the future. This is only an issue if the calibration is off and you are using exact fit mortises on both pieces of material. Because your use opposite sided indexing pins for mating pieces of material any error is doubled. This is much easier illustrated than explained.
At any rate thousands of mortises later I seldom if ever use the indexing pins and am totally happy with the results.
Accuracy of the location of the mortise up and down is a non issue as you reference the same faces of the material to cut the mortise.
I'll bring my Domino over tonight and splain'it.
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On 9/18/2016 4:10 PM, Leon wrote:

Jeeeezusss, finally, you icehole ... thanks!! LOL
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On 9/18/2016 4:10 PM, Leon wrote:

I don't do impressions ... unless you count Boudreaux and Thibodeaux jokes. ;)

Any gotcha's, tearout/splintering that won't be hidden?
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On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 06:37:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Sounds like a huge waste of time. Dominoes aren't expensive.
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On 9/18/2016 7:48 PM, krw wrote:

Yep, it certainly is, if off-the-shelf dominoes will work on a project, it makes no sense.
And, the lack of mm sized router bits, to match the radius of the domino cut mortise's curved edges, as an excuse for not doing so, is a non-issue when faced with making a handful of custom widths for a project.
Even more so when it has been stated here a number of times that it is desirable to cut the domino mortise a bit wider than the domino width to gain some wiggle room... meaning a precise fit in the radiused corners is not an absolute necessity.
When needing just a few, I routinely put the proper radius, using a Nicholson 49, on all four edges of loose tenons, usually in well under a minute each.
I'm a big fan of the Domino machine ... but I'm also constantly running across projects where the ability to cut non standard sized joinery is the key to the project's success, particularly those projects that can't be designed/fabricated around the capabilities of the tool, i.e., reproductions ... therefore my interest in this thread.
That said, Leon convinced me last night that doing custom sized, _wider_ mortises is easily doable with the Domino, with little fuss or muss ... and my experience is that making those custom width tenons should not an issue for even a novice woodworker.
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No, I have cut wider slots but not for wider tenons. I cut wider slots for screws to slide in.
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On 9/15/2016 7:23 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Actually many custom builders are using the larger Domino for large wooden doors.
Click on the video
http://festoolusa.com/power-tools/joiners/professional/

Good observations but mortisers are S L O W compared to a Domino.
FWIW and having used both a Domino is as fast to use per joint as a biscuit cutter. A mortiser is maybe twice as fast as doing by hand by an experienced wood worker.
A mortiser does half of the joint, you still have to cut tenons and every fit is probably going to have to be tweaked. The Domino does both sides of the joint perfectly almost instantly.
I bought my Domino with the expectation to use it like my biscuit joiner. The tool is so versatile that I have used it 10 more than I ever did with the biscuit cutter.
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On 9/16/2016 8:27 AM, Leon wrote: The tool is so versatile that I have used it 10 more than I

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On 9/16/2016 9:33 AM, Leon wrote:

This could be a better post. You should have mentioned it is a Festool Domino assuring the commission payment and the mere mention would bring joy to Neon Whatshisname.
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On 9/16/2016 12:40 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Sorry, LOL
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@swbelldotnet says...

I looked at the video. Not the style of door or window I have in mind. Any links on using the Domino with a coped joint?
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On 9/16/2016 4:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Not that I recall, but I do lap joints and reinforce with the domino. So mortising a surface with intricate edges is no issue.
As long as you have a solid surface to register against, you can add a mortise to a coped edge/joint.
Take a look here this is a reinforced lap joint.
The mortises were cut after cutting the 1/4" thick tongue which will engage the mating rabbet. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051082274/in/dateposted-public/
How it fits with the domino tenon in the thicker 2/3" of the joint. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051131673/in/dateposted-public/
Freshly cut mortises. The Domino motiser's face registers against the tongue and I simply adjust the depth of plunge and extra 12mm to span the 1/2" gap. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051049986/in/dateposted-public/
The fact that there is not a total solid surface should not matter. All you need is a face on the work for the fence to rest on and an edge for the face of the mortiser to register against.
The rails with mortises, https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051045046/in/dateposted-public/
And the mating stiles with the mortises. https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/11051074714/in/dateposted-public/
These joints are very strong when reinforced with a Domino and I reinforce all of these joints with the Domino.
If I added a decorative edge and or use my rail and stile bits the Domino could reinforce those joints too.
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On 9/15/2016 7:23 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Come to think the Leigh will have a similar limitation--it can't cut > any deeper than the longest router bit I can get.
Consider using end mills for cutting mortises with a router. I don't use anything else on my Multi-Router.

Since most large door frame stiles are rarely over 6" in width, I doubt that will ever be a practical limitation, as the traditional rules for tenon length is five times its thickness, or 1/3rd the width of the stile.
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snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com says...

It's a third of the thickness, 2/3 of the _width_ for a door. So a six inch stile needs a 4 inch tenon. Still, did some measuring and the widest is only 4 inches so the Domino's back in the running.
Any thoughts on using it with a coped joint?
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On 9/16/2016 4:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

Not necessarily ... and why gawd invented various types of M&T joinery. ;)
Shorter, double, or twin, tenons at the joint (dead simple to do with a tool like the XL Domino), and depending upon the thickness (with regard to the amount of stock removal necessary that could weaken a critical point) will often afford a stronger joint than a single 4" tenon.
I've built a number of large doors and don't consider the max tenon length for the XL Domino to be practically limiting for most residential door applications ... unless of course you're building a castle, or doing timber framing. ;)
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snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com says...

I hadn't really thought about a floor-standing mortiser--I generally think of those as "too expensive" but the Powermatic is midway between the two Dominos and would fit right in with doing the coped tenons that dpb suggested (which was the direction I was leaning anyway).
Thank you.
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