It's a third of the thickness, 2/3 of the _width_ for a door. So a six inch stile needs a 4 inch tenon. Still, did some measuring and the widest is only 4 inches so the Domino's back in the running.
Any thoughts on using it with a coped joint?
I looked at the video. Not the style of door or window I have in mind. Any links on using the Domino with a coped joint?
Not necessarily ... and why gawd invented various types of M&T joinery. ;)
Shorter, double, or twin, tenons at the joint (dead simple to do with a tool like the XL Domino), and depending upon the thickness (with regard to the amount of stock removal necessary that could weaken a critical point) will often afford a stronger joint than a single 4" tenon.
I've built a number of large doors and don't consider the max tenon length for the XL Domino to be practically limiting for most residential door applications ... unless of course you're building a castle, or doing timber framing. ;)
Not that I recall, but I do lap joints and reinforce with the domino. So mortising a surface with intricate edges is no issue.
As long as you have a solid surface to register against, you can add a mortise to a coped edge/joint.
Take a look here this is a reinforced lap joint.
The mortises were cut after cutting the 1/4" thick tongue which will engage the mating rabbet.
How it fits with the domino tenon in the thicker 2/3" of the joint.
Freshly cut mortises. The Domino motiser's face registers against the tongue and I simply adjust the depth of plunge and extra 12mm to span the 1/2" gap.
The fact that there is not a total solid surface should not matter. All you need is a face on the work for the fence to rest on and an edge for the face of the mortiser to register against.
The rails with mortises,
And the mating stiles with the mortises.
These joints are very strong when reinforced with a Domino and I reinforce all of these joints with the Domino.
If I added a decorative edge and or use my rail and stile bits the Domino could reinforce those joints too.
And actually the larger domino will "normally" accept down to a 8mm bit. Keep in mind also that the Domino only comes with one sized cutter unless you buy the assortment of Dominos also.
You will need/want to attach a vac to the Domino to keep the holes cleaned out. With that combination virtually no saw dust or shavings escape. It is a very clean operation.
And just a few other things to consider. There is no risk with buying a Domino mortiser. You can use it for 30 days and if it will not do what you want it to do you can return it, no problem.
I predominately use 5mm domino tenons, I am on my 3rd box of 1,800 and I went through the initial 600 that came with the assortment also. So that is about 4800 Dominos in the 5mm size and 9600 mortises. That is a load of mortises. I am still using the original 5mm cutter bit and have never had it resharpened. Considering a regular chisel and bit mortiser, how often do you think you will have to resharpen the chisel?
I am not trying to sell you or steer you in any direction so much as giving you views of my experience. I have not turned my Delta mortiser on in over 8 years since getting the Domino.
One thing that I have not mentioned. While the Domino mortisers have an indexing system to register the location from the end of a board, I do not trust it. Every joint that I use the Domino on I use an exact fit mortise on one mating piece and an elongated mortice on the other mating piece, you simply adjust a dial to do this. This gives you wiggle room of about
1/8" left and right, probably a bit more with larger bits. This also lets you make marks on mating pieces for placement like you would with a biscuit joiner. I typically cut the exact fit mortise on the end of a board, the rail and the elongated mortise on the edge of a board, the stile.
This is why I'm a little confused over the objection to the mortise length of the Domino. They don't have to be through.
I think Swingman has mentioned a time or two getting the bigger Domino. I think for a furniture and cabinet builder that the 500 is perfect. While the big one would be nice to have, I seriously doubt that a furniture/cabinet maker would ever need more than the 500. The Domino makes quality builds a dream come true with its accuracy and lightning speed compared to conventional machinery like a mortiser. I am convened that a woodworker that is serious about building quality furniture that the Domino is an answer to many how do I do it questions.
In Clark's case he has a particular need and the 700 could possibly be "the answer" if "he" can make it work. IMHO if he could make it work the 700 would be used much more in future projects than a mortiser.
That was exactly my point. Unless you're a door-maker or butcher-block maker (are there any of those?) I don't see the need for the 700. Maybe if you want to build a house without nails... ;-) The 500 is probably the slickest tool around, though.
Near as I can tell, there is one thing that the 500 will do that the 700 will not--the 500 has an extra width setting (its settings are an exact fit, 6mm wider, and 10mm wider, the XL only does the exact and 6, not the 10). I thought this would matter but there aren't wider tenons to take advantage of it near as I can tell and cutting wider seems pretty easy anyway. That makes the 700 a very easy decision and at this point I'm leaning in that direction. In fact I'm leaning pretty hard in that direction. I'd be making storm windows with it right now if I hadn't found out when I got to Woodcraft that I had FORGOTTEN MY DARNED WALLET!!! Turns out that that Festool even has instructions in the user manual for using it with coped sash.
The idea isn't wider tenons, rather slop in placing the mortise.
BTDT. I was on a business trip to Columbus last week and forgot the "Woodcraft cash" at home.
Cool. Sounds like you're all set. Remember, it only hurts once.
The wider cut than exact fit is NOT for wider tenons, it is to allow wiggle room and in so much that I never use the widest setting, the "just" wider than exact fit works well. I'm not sure if you saw my comment about using exact fit on one side of the joint and the wider cut for the opposite side but that certainly makes life easier. I doubt you will ever see any loss of strength by using the wider mortise cut for all of your joint unions.
That makes the 700 a very easy decision and at this point
Turns out that that Festool even has instructions in the user
Bonus!
>
And one last thing, when at all possible, which is most of the time, do not use the bottom of the Domino as the reference to a work surface, use the fence on the material. If you use the bottom and the material is warped/bowed or has any debris under it, it will not set flat on the work surface and your mortises will be cut too low.
This goes for biscuit cutters too.
Since I use a Multi-Router for floating tenon joiner and I make all my tenons myself, begs a question:
If the need arose is there any reason you can't cut a wider mortise with the domino (say one and a half or two passes) and make your own tenons?
Wouldn't it be easier and stronger to just use multiple tenons?
The internet abounds with method of making your own dominos. Google "DIY domino tenons".
If you're picky about fit and doing it in volume the roundover on the edges can be an issue--in principle it's easy with a router and a roundover bit, in practice try to find a 7mm radius roundover bit in the US.
This table was posted on the Festool forum by Gregg Mann:
5mm-use 3/32 rad. (If you can find them in each case) 6mm 1/8 8mm 5/32 10mm 3/16 12mm 1/4Others just chamfer the ends, use a block plane, sand them, or even use them square.
I susspect that somebody would do well producing a purpose made set of bits to cut dominos.
Depends on the geometry of the particular piece I suspect.
No, I have cut wider slots but not for wider tenons. I cut wider slots for screws to slide in.
I considered making my own 8 years ago when, like you, I was doing tons or research. But after considering how many domino tenons I was using I decided that they were not cost prohibitive. My time is more valuable than the cost of the tenons. While the larger tenons are more expensive you will likely, in the long run, use more of the less expensive tenons. Now I realize that you mat not use any 5mm tenons but those are on par with large biscuits when bought in case quantities. Plus all Domino tenons have small impressions on both sides to retain glue while you tap them in.
It is relatively easy to make a tenons but not so much, precisely sized. A little to thin and alignment problems on mating pieces show up. The question to ask is, do you want to spend time building or maker tenons?
I wonder how long and at what cost 6,000 5mm tenons and materials and router bits would cost me? Buying pre made has cost me between $225-$250 over 8 years.
The question was NOT about making tenons. But whether a wider mortise can be cut with the Domino by making multiple, _or overlapping_ , cuts (one and a half or two passes), with its usual ease and precision??
On 9/18/2016 8:57 AM, Leon wrote: > It is relatively easy to make a tenons but not so much, precisely > sized. A > little to thin and alignment problems on mating pieces show up.
Buying them is indeed more convenient, but I seriously question whether it is less expensive, or more precise. ;)
IME, cutting precise fitting floating tenons is no more difficult than cutting precisely dimensioned, in width and thickness, project stock.
For the projects I do, like the chair reproductions, custom sized joinery has the same obvious benefits of any custom made endeavor over built in.
I personally like the fact that I can size the joinery as precisely for the project dimensions as I can, as if I were cutting the mortise and tenon joinery by hand.
With the added plus that the tenons will be of the same species, and with matching grain characteristics, which arguably benefits the strongest possible glue joint.
I'm aware that is putting a fine point on it, but, after all, putting a fine point on things is how we both have been able to make a living doing what we do. LOL
Your "No" Sounds more like a "Yes" to my question?
Let me rephrase:
Can the Domino easily be used to facilitate, at least in in part, the custom aspect remarked upon above by using it to cut wider, _custom_ width mortises?
IOW, wider than its built-in width capacity; and, equally importantly, with its customary ease and accuracy?
Not arguing ... mine is a valid question, as I'm once again considering trading in my Multi-Router for a Domino to free up some shop space ... I'm tripping over every damned thing in the shop these days.
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