Mortising and tenoning doors and windows

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On 09/12/2016 4:48 PM, Leon wrote: ...

Have you used any for exterior application, Leon?

I don't know that it'd make much difference but the biggest difference I see in the windows is simply the full-length/width for the surface area as opposed to the limited (relative) size of the loose tenon.
If they're cut as I suggested, I can't think there'd be any time-savings, either; one gets multiple joints in one pass on the ends by coping whereas each has to have both ends done as individual operation otherwise; four operations per joint, total.
Then again, as we've often noted here, I'm an old traditional kinda' guy, too...I just like the cope fit.
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On 9/12/2016 5:24 PM, dpb wrote:

Yes. But most interior. There are specific Dominos tenons made for out door applications.

The large Domino will handle up to 3" deep on both sides IIRC. Tenon 6" long. But I may have missed something in the OP post. I understood that he would possibly reuse old wood and repair joints. The larger Domino would work for that.

Certainly if building new! Again I thought he might be repairing and using the old wood.
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On 09/12/2016 10:12 PM, Leon wrote:

...

I'd wondered about that...they should stay dry-enough in the application but the more extreme temp/humididee swings made me ask...what's the difference in the splines/tenons, you know?
Many old windows weren't actually glued; they simply used a headless nail as a "peg" in the joints. With the advent of modern glues, I believe commercial windows now are universally glued; probably with urea-formaldehyde or the like I'd presume...
...

...
I wasn't aware there was anything that large available...then again, there's never been a dealer where I've been located; I've never actually seen one of them live...

Seemed to me he had discounted the idea as too many too far gone...otoh, I'd be likely to be dissassembling and making pieces to fit; probably at higher level of effort and time than building new simply to salvage as much of the original as could...just on the principle of the thing. :)
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On 9/13/2016 8:28 AM, dpb wrote:

Sipo Mahogany tenons
http://festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/joiners/tenons/sipo-domino-tenons-10mm-x-24-mm-x-50mm-pack-of-85-494873

I would be clueless on both counts. ;~)

Sorry, actually, 19/32" to 2-3/4" (15-70 mm, 5 mm increments) but you can buy tenons in lengths of up to 750mm long, Cut to desired length.

Sure, at a certain point repairing can be more trouble than simply building new.
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It's not just that. If make new for one then it will unless I'm very careful in my selection of wood have a different interior appearance from the others, and I'm not all that enamored of the appearance as they are (note by the way that I'm not wedded to cypress--choice of wood is still somewhat up in the air and will depend on whether I've got surplus to spend). Also they are all single glazed and while I could get individual double-glazed units that would fit where each existing pane came out, they would be too thin to be really effective and there would be an awful lot of them--better IMO to make new sash intended to fit double-glazing and to use false muntins instead of tiny panes.
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On 9/12/16 4:48 PM, Leon wrote:

Um, because they're loose. Duh.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 9/12/2016 6:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Um not when you glue them in. They are only loose until the glue dries.
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On 9/12/16 10:13 PM, Leon wrote:

HA! Gotcha!! I was makin a funny. :-p
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On 9/12/2016 11:10 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

;~)
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Just don't like them. I like the classical mortise and tenon.
Of course, I'm not a production shop cutting thousands of mortises a year, so I can afford to be old school. I cut my tenons by hand with a Lie-Neilsen tenon saw most of the time, something else you wouldn't do.
J. Clarke's 400-odd mortise and tenons, spread over 3 or 4 years as he appears to envision, seems to me practical to do in the classical way.
John
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On 9/12/2016 9:34 PM, John McCoy wrote:

An absolute valid reason. ;~)
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@swbelldotnet says...

Well, I looked at the Dominos today. The little one is right out--I don't see where it offers any advantages over the XL and there wouldn't be enough mortise depth past the cope to provide much benefit. The XL can go 2.75 inches deep which is a big improvement. Be dandy for windows but a little short for full sized frame-and-panel doors.
Come to think the Leigh will have a similar limitation--it can't cut any deeper than the longest router bit I can get.
OK, I think that's going to be the deciding factor--the Domino and the Leigh would be working at the limit of what they can do, the Powermatic will be right in the middle of its capability range on doors--the windows should be a breeze for it.
Unless there's a compelling argument otherwise that I've missed.
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On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:23:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"

For that job, the little one doesn't have any advantages but that's why they have both models. The big one doesn't do Dominoes smaller than 10mm, IIRC. That's kinda big for most woodworking.

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says...

There's an adapter to use the cutters from the 500 in the 700.

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On 9/16/2016 4:05 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

And actually the larger domino will "normally" accept down to a 8mm bit. Keep in mind also that the Domino only comes with one sized cutter unless you buy the assortment of Dominos also.
You will need/want to attach a vac to the Domino to keep the holes cleaned out. With that combination virtually no saw dust or shavings escape. It is a very clean operation.
And just a few other things to consider. There is no risk with buying a Domino mortiser. You can use it for 30 days and if it will not do what you want it to do you can return it, no problem.
I predominately use 5mm domino tenons, I am on my 3rd box of 1,800 and I went through the initial 600 that came with the assortment also. So that is about 4800 Dominos in the 5mm size and 9600 mortises. That is a load of mortises. I am still using the original 5mm cutter bit and have never had it resharpened. Considering a regular chisel and bit mortiser, how often do you think you will have to resharpen the chisel?
I am not trying to sell you or steer you in any direction so much as giving you views of my experience. I have not turned my Delta mortiser on in over 8 years since getting the Domino.

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On 9/16/2016 6:55 PM, Leon wrote:

One thing that I have not mentioned. While the Domino mortisers have an indexing system to register the location from the end of a board, I do not trust it. Every joint that I use the Domino on I use an exact fit mortise on one mating piece and an elongated mortice on the other mating piece, you simply adjust a dial to do this. This gives you wiggle room of about 1/8" left and right, probably a bit more with larger bits. This also lets you make marks on mating pieces for placement like you would with a biscuit joiner. I typically cut the exact fit mortise on the end of a board, the rail and the elongated mortise on the edge of a board, the stile.
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wrote:

This is why I'm a little confused over the objection to the mortise length of the Domino. They don't have to be through.

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On 9/16/2016 10:30 PM, krw wrote:

I think Swingman has mentioned a time or two getting the bigger Domino. I think for a furniture and cabinet builder that the 500 is perfect. While the big one would be nice to have, I seriously doubt that a furniture/cabinet maker would ever need more than the 500. The Domino makes quality builds a dream come true with its accuracy and lightning speed compared to conventional machinery like a mortiser. I am convened that a woodworker that is serious about building quality furniture that the Domino is an answer to many how do I do it questions.
In Clark's case he has a particular need and the 700 could possibly be "the answer" if "he" can make it work. IMHO if he could make it work the 700 would be used much more in future projects than a mortiser.
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wrote:

That was exactly my point. Unless you're a door-maker or butcher-block maker (are there any of those?) I don't see the need for the 700. Maybe if you want to build a house without nails... ;-) The 500 is probably the slickest tool around, though.
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says...

Near as I can tell, there is one thing that the 500 will do that the 700 will not--the 500 has an extra width setting (its settings are an exact fit, 6mm wider, and 10mm wider, the XL only does the exact and 6, not the 10). I thought this would matter but there aren't wider tenons to take advantage of it near as I can tell and cutting wider seems pretty easy anyway. That makes the 700 a very easy decision and at this point I'm leaning in that direction. In fact I'm leaning pretty hard in that direction. I'd be making storm windows with it right now if I hadn't found out when I got to Woodcraft that I had FORGOTTEN MY DARNED WALLET!!! Turns out that that Festool even has instructions in the user manual for using it with coped sash.
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