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LOL! Good one! I'm always fascinated by assumptions that lead to wrong conclusions. Which assumption of yours led you astray and why did you make that assumption in the first place?

What does competing with Walmart have to do with Walmart hiring illegal immigrants, locking employees in stores, not paying overtime, sexual discrimination, etc.? Which of your relatives would you want some of those things to happen to? Are you saying that those shady practices are what gives Walmart the edge? Give me an edge and you can go screw yourself? Is that how you believe capitalism is supposed to work?
BTW, we're not in a capitalist society. Them there are buzz words that people like to hang on to. Our economy has capitalistic tendencies. We're actually in a mixed economy where the government regulates a large portion of it. It is not a free market and it is not a capitalist economy. Turn of the 20th century America was far closer to a capitalist economy. That was the era of robber barons, market manipulation and monopolistic trusts. As, those were the days, eh?
R
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Where did I ever say that kind of behavior is OK? I never defended those practices, those practices are illegal, and if they are legitimately happening, then they should be prosecuted for it.
This conversation started out by people saying that Wal-mart is "screwing" their employees with no benefits and low wage. This is what I have a problem with.

Semantics.
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That's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens" were in the employ of third-party contractors.
So show us the "numerous times".

Locking someone in a store would be a violation of Section 135.05 of the Laws of New York (unlawful imprisonment), and depending on the class of occupancy would probably be a violation of Section 27-371 of the NYC Administrative Code as well. Since egress in case of fire was prevented that might also elevate the offense to Unlawful Imprisonment in the First Degree, which is a Class E felony that could have the manager in the slammer for four years.
Personally if my boss locked me in a store with no way out I'd call the cops and if I had no way of doing that I'd pull the fire alarm and explain the problem to the fire chief after he got through busting the door down.

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>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/transform/emplo...That 's busted once and according to that source most of the "illegal aliens"

Okay, but this is the last time I'm doing your homework for you. http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm A dozen subcontractors were implicated, but Walmart was the one made to pay the bulk of the penalty. Walmart was trying to push the responsibility down on the subcontractors - it didn't fool the government.

Before or after beating the crap out of the boss?
R
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wrote...

It's the same bust--you still haven't demonstrated "numerous times". One bust is not "numerous times".

Wouldn't lay a hand on the boss, that would be assault. Besides, I'm getting too old for that shit.
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began in 1998 and 2001, respectively. These operations targeted cleaning contractors that were hiring unauthorized workers from Eastern Europe. The follow-up investigation culminated on October 23, 2003, with a series of immigration enforcement actions at some 60 Wal-Mart stores in 21 states. In these actions, ICE agents arrested approximately 245 illegal aliens employed by cleaning contractors and put these individuals into deportation proceedings."
It was a sting operation where the feds descended on numerous stores.. There were numerous busts. I also am not sure how much more severe of a situation it would need to be to satisfy you that it was egregious. There were a dozen companies and the single largest fine in US history for hiring illegal immigrants. If it were an isolated incident, and not a pattern of abuse, there wouldn't have been such a large fine.
I think this is where you move on to say that it was the subcontractors that hired the illegal immigrants. Then I reply that obviously Walmart was aware of it, that it was a pattern of abuse that Walmart took advantage of to line their coffers, and why they ended up paying a fine almost three times as much as the 12 subcontractors' fines combined. Then you call my heritage into question, I pop you one, we scuffle for a while, then get winded pretty quickly being old farts, and we retire to a local tavern for some libations and to trade war stories. It's a formula, but it works. ;)
R
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:20:30 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

Fine, you want to call the results a single government operation that led to a single trial against Wal-Mart "numerous busts" you go right ahead.
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61 stores were raided. Coincidence or a pattern?
I'm not sure what you're suggesting as the alternative. Would you prefer the sting operation extracted one illegal alien from one store at a time? That sounds efficient. Maybe the feds are taking a page from Walmart's book and consolidating to take advantage of the economies of scale.
R
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:00:29 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

Single bust, multiple locations.

That would be repeated busts.

Yes, they are, hence the single bust that you keep claiming was not a single bust.
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Bust - Slang. a.    an arrest. b.    a police raid.
Notice that the articles 'an' and 'a' - those are singular in nature. There were multiple raids, at multiple locations, and multiple people were arrested.
BF, the poster who used the word numerous, wrote: Walmart has also been busted numerous times for paying below minimum wage to illegal aliens." 245 illegal aliens were arrested and deported from those raids - that's numerous...at least in most people's definitions of the word. Numerous - adj : amounting to a large indefinite number; "numerous times"; "the family was numerous"
I'm kind of surprised that you've gotten so hung up on a word. I would think that you would have more to offer than simply asking for citations, references and definitions. Information on Walmart's practices is readily available on the net if you care to look. Of course if your mind is already made up, that's unnecessary. Facts might muddy the waters of your clear thinking.
R
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The facts are certainly not doing a whole lot for your spin. ;)
Cite one case where Wal-mart had illegals on their payroll.
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Sheesh. You must be kidding me.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/18/national/main681593.shtml The paragraph that starts with "On Oct. 23,..."
And if you like the bizarre: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102928,00.html
This takes the cake, though: http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050318-104421-2951r.htm Notice how long it takes Walmart to pay off a $11 million dollar fine? 16 hours of sales. Wow. Boy, I bet that taught them a lesson.

$135,540 for child labor law violations in what critics called a "sweetheart deal." The settlement also required the department to provide 15 days of notice to Wal-Mart's headquarters before inspecting any store." Well, hell, I'd love that too. I wonder if I could get OSHA to announce their visits two weeks in advance? That $135K fine was paid by 15 seconds of sales by Walmart.
This stuff should piss you off. It makes me wonder why it doesn't.
And stop making me do your homework for you. That's not what I'm here for. There's plenty of information on Walmart's practices if you want to learn as opposed to just having an uniformed opinion.
J. Clarke stated in one of his earliest posts on this topic that he was no fan of Walmart. I get the feeling that you are a big fan. That's all fine and dandy. There's a lot of good in the company, and they've certainly dragged retailing into the 21st century. But there's no need to defend the bad things about someone/something you like. That's loyal, for sure, but it's also stupid. I don't think you're a stupid guy.
You must know that your _opinion_ carries weight. You don't have to picket outside of the store to make your voice heard. Just let people know what a particular company is doing right and what a company is doing wrong. Negative publicity will affect their bottom line, and in the corporate world, that's the only thing that they hear.
R
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wrote:

So out of all of the illegals, only 10 were actual Wal-mart employees.... yeah, that shows an obvious history of Wal-mart employing illegals.

Contractors again....

Not sure what the point of this is... this is neither here nor there.

It doesn't "piss me off" because I am rational. I understand that Wal-mart is a very large corporation, they are worlds largest retailer and the largest private employer in the United States, so I realize that there are going to be isolated cases of misbehavior.
The "illegal aliens" charges don't piss me off because they are bogus, you shouldn't be holding a company responsible for the employees of another company with whom they contract with.
If you have a new roof put on your house and it turns out some of those roofers are illegal, should you be held responsible? Of course not. This is essentially what they are doing to Wal-mart, and many other companies.

You haven't pointed out anything I didn't already know. I was hoping you had something substantial against the great evil Wal-Mart.

I'm a fan of businesses in general.

Where have I defended the "bad things" they have done? Go ahead and quote me.
You have taken it to the opposite extreme of what you have accused me of. You are condemning them as a whole company because of some perceived bad things, and have taken it to the point of out right slandering the company by misrepresenting facts to support your opinion.
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Locutus wrote:

Isn't it libel since I'm writing it?
I am by no means condemning Walmart in toto. I've already said that. You do remember my writing that Walmart dragged the retail business into the 21st century, don't you? They are industry leaders, they are one of, if not the largest companies/employers in the world. These are amazing things. All of this started by a guy who lived in the same ranch house for 35 years while he was becoming a billionaire, and who said that his favorite food was his wife's meatloaf. Sam Walton was/is an idol of mine. Sam's dead.
There's an old saying - with great power comes great responsibility. There aren't many _countries_ that have as much power as Walmart. They need to step up on the responsibility to accompany that power.
R
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:59:10 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

Notice that you have not stated from what source you took this definition.

The statement that there were "numerous busts" implies that Wal-Mart was busted, taken to court, found guilty or innocent as the case may be, continued the practice, was busted again, continued the practice, was busted again, etc, numerous times. That is not what happened, what happened was that they were raided, in many locations, as part of a single unified police operation that led to a single trial and a single ruling.
It's not a matter of "being hung up on a word", it's a matter of not letting you get away with a misleading accusation.
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Do you want me to spoon feed you, too?

You're reading impaired, aren't you? Dyslexic? Having a senior moment - repeatedly? The raids took place over a period of years. Just drop it, okay?

There is nothing misleading in saying that Walmart has exhibited a pattern of maximizing profits by squeezing everyone and everything to make a buck. Some of the squeezing took place by locking people in stores, not paying overtime, hiring companies to distance themselves from hiring illegal aliens when there are documents and recorded conversations proving they knew of the illegals, having minors operating machinery and violating child labor laws, I'm getting bored, you?
R
R
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wrote:

I have a cleaning company that cleans my business. I have no idea if they are illegal or not.
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Taking bets?
Like everything else, it seems the person with the deepest pockets is held responsible. Get on in there in the evening and check those green cards, or someone with a grudge will.
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:28:25 -0500, "Locutus"

Nor is it your problem if they are, at least not legally. You have no obligation, or even a legal ability to question their legal status. That's the job of the owners of the company you contract with, not yours.
And it's not Walmart's either.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Oh yeah, sure you would. Now, put your self in the place of the "uneducated, unskilled" employee that Walmart preys on. No place else to work, you're not calling the cops or pulling any fire alarms. It's best not to try and put your self into the mindset of the people that Walmart hires.
-Jim
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