Measuring Devices / Tape Measures

[Nick Bozovich]

I was watching Norm today - he was measuring up a piece of lumber, and he used a tape measure. I couldn't tell what brand, but it made me think about the worthless tape measure I have in my shop - that I try to avoid using. Why? Because the end of it is loose, and if you don't push the tape back toward it, the measurement can be off by nearly 1/8".

I was in Lowes today, and checked out their tape measures - even on the more expensive ones the end of it was loose! One was even worse than the one I have.

I've mostly used a folding carpenter's rule with a metal insert for 1" - 6", because the tape measure isn't reliable.

What does everyone else use?

Thanks -

Nick B

[Bruce]

A tape measure but always consider it a "rough" measurement unless I can hold off an inch on the end.

[Tom]

worthless tape measure I have in my shop that I try to avoid using.

Hey Nick, that looseness might be to allow the tape to measure both inside and outside spans. See if the distance the tape moves on the end is the same as the thickness of the end. Good luck. Tom

Someday, it'll all be over....

[Swingman]

That is a "feature" that is actually by design on most tape measures so that you can take accurate inside measurements.The amount of slop should be equal to the thickness of the hook ... generally about 1/6th or so.

The "accuracy" of a particular tape measure is completely irrelevant as long as you ALWAYS use the same one.

AAMOF, tape measures aren't even necessary in woodworking. Many furniture and cabinet makers go with a stick with the project measurements marked off linearly. It's called a "story stick" and is much more accurate than using a tape measure. Save the story stick and you can build another project with the _exact_ same dimensions as the original 50 years later ... you can't do that with a tape measure unless you use the same one.

The moral, because tape measures to come in handy, is to buy a well made one that will last a long time and use it exclusively ... again, the "accuracy" of the tool is irrelevant.

[John, in MN]

From what I understand the end should slide the thickness of the tab thingie. This allows you to make inside and outside measurements without needing to compensate for the end of the tape's tab thickness.

-- John, in Minnesota

[Kennor]

[todd]

Are you kidding me? I'm not sure where my tape measure is 50% of the time and I'm going to keep track of a stick for 50 years? ;-)

todd

[Mike G]

Primarily a tape measure

[Edwin Pawlowski]

You'd think the guys that make them would have figured out how to do it right my now. You and I know better. Flatten out that bent end first. Then beat the rivet with a hammer a few times until the loose end doesn't move.

Just curious, what kind of fishing line do you use? Ed

[charlie b]

snip

That was a laugh out loud one! I'm sure there are european trained furniture makers who can and do keep story sticks for 50 years. Me, I'm with Todd. If they'd just put a "page" function like on portable phones, on pocket tapes ...

Actual "measured" lengths aren't that important (unless you're doing built ins. Its far more important that all parts that are supposed to be the same length are in fact the same length. If I need parts to fit between A and B I put two sticks - with sqaure ends, in the space, slide them to fit the desired distance and clamp them together. On the SCMA I use the sticks to set the stop and cut all those parts at the same time. As long as the parts fit properly I don't care what the tape measured length is.

charlie b

[David Babcock]

That's exactly the reason I have three 30' in the shop, there is always one laying around somewhere.

Dave

[Swingman]

LOL ... know the feeling well. However, you may be around in 50 years ... that's something I don't have to worry about. ;>)

[Charlie Self]

Me, either, but a guy I know who owns a cabinet shop may be setting his up the same way the previous owner, his father did: he has an entire wall devoted to hanging story sticks, each with name and date neatly written on them. One job per nail, mostly, except for really small jobs. I'd guess that JR has about 45 years of such sticks now, since he's been running the business about 20 years after his father retired. He'll hit the 50 year mark soon.

Charlie Self "I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man I keep his house." Zsa Zsa Gabor

[Roy Smith]

I always know where my tape measure is. It's right where I put it down the last time. Of course, sometimes I have trouble remembering where I put it down the last time :-)

"Wherever you go, there you are"

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

I wear a shop apron. This allows me to know where my tape, saddle square, and 6" combo are 99% of the time. I use the same 18' center finding tape for all my woodworking.

Of course, my wife recently figured out that the tape is in the apron, so all bets are off.

Barry

[K.-Benoit Evans]

This is true, unless you have to send your measurements to someone else.

I found that out the hard way once when I ordered a glass table top based on a tape measure measurement. Unfortunately, my tape and their measurement device did not agree. (I suspect theirs was probably the accurate one.)

I checked by tapes and rulers. The straight-edge rulers were very accurate. However the tapes were all over the place. After all, they're made for construction work, usually for fairly long lengths, and a tolerance of plus or minus 1/16 is acceptable (except for finish work).

My newest tape, a Stanley "MaxSteel Contractor Grade", 3m/10ft, is off

3/32 in the first 24 inches, resulting in a short cut. My Craftsman 16ft tape is off 1/32 in the first 24, but cuts long, so if the error causes a problem, I can trim the piece to the correct length.

My next purchase will be a steel hook-end ruler from Lee Valley.

[Leon]

You think he is trolling here... ;~)

[Swingman]

Done that. Now when ordering glass, particulary if it is to be inset into a frame of some type, I either have the glass cut first and build to it, send a template, or take the piece to the glass shop and let them measure it. Most glass cutters cut to +/- 1/16" tolerance, which, as you noted, can be problematic when measuring with two different measuring devices..

Tolerances used to be that way down here, but with the advent of "carpenters" named after Mary's son, and who hail from places with no wood whatsoever, the framers seem to think 1/2" is close enough, and the finish guys 1/4".

These days, it's the painters, with their caulk guns, who make things fit.

[Jim K]

As you've already heard, the loose hook on the tape measure is "a feature not a bug." The big thing in accuracy is to use the same tool for measurement or make sure all your tools measure the same.

If you have a yardstick, tape measure, framing square, etc. laying around compare the marking of each. You're probably (I'd say almost positively) going to find differences among them. I just read some test where a guy bought several tape measures (some were the make and model) and compared the sizes and found them all to have slight differences in accuracy.

Try to use just one measuring tool for one project or compare them and realize that an inch isn't always an inch.

I use a variety of measuring tools depending on what I'm measuring. I usually use a tape measure for larger measurements and a Union 12" and Craftsman 6" square (they both measure the same). I also use a small cheap brass sliding caliper, a slightly less cheap plastic dial caliper, and a digital caliper (less than $20 from Harbor Freight and works great). I have a dial indicator and a set of micrometers along with inside and outside calipers, not to mention 6" and 36" metal rulers. I also have protractors, both fixed and adjustable; framing squares, circle gauges and screw templates.

And sometimes I just mark a piece of cardboard.

Do I need them all? Naw, but they're cool to play with :-P

[C]

Tapes are cheap. When one begins to wear, get another.

Another solution is to clip off the lose tab. Use the tape as is or add/subtract the difference each time you use it.

The measuring device or scale you use really doesn't matter as much as consistency in using it. Units of measure are no more than a convenience. They do not change distance but merely try to define it.