Making wheels...

[Silvan]

When we got back from lunch today, my son said "we're going out to the shop right now, so I can finish my train! Come on!"

Well, I'd say I've gotten the boy hooked. :) :) :)

He likes wooden train stuff. He has sort of out-grown playing with it as much as he used to, but now it's taking on a whole new dimension because he can make rolling stock (with a little help from Dad...)

We've done some cool stuff, but our wheels suck. They're made from plywood cut with a Sears flycutter, and they're rather rough and clunky. The flycutter is no special joy to use either, and I sure would like to come up with a better way.

I've thought about using hole saws, but my experience is that they make pretty rough, ugly cuts too, and it's difficult to get the cut-off material back out of them without mangling it.

I can envision a few different ways to cut these on a table saw, bandsaw, or maybe a scroll saw if I had one. I could maybe even rig something up with a jigsaw held in a vise, but anything I'm picturing would be far more suitable for doing much larger discs. With pieces this small, it would be difficult to control the work and keep fingers safely away.

Maybe try some drill press turnings? I've been doing those for the smokestacks, sand humps and whatnot. Actually, that has given me quite a taste for turning, and I see a lathe in my future. How could I turn a weel though? Seems difficult, though I've seen plenty of fancy wooden wheels that must have been turned.

Hmmm.... Maybe I could buy dowels, and then slice them up. That might be a plan. Or turn square stock into dowels and slice them up. I've seen ideas for several ways to do that consistently.

Any other ideas? Surely somebody out there is a wooden toy maker.

[Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A.]

I have the same flycutter and use it constantly. Hone the spur at the least sign of dullness and it'll cut glass smooth. A bit of paraffin also helps.

Always wondered if the slugs could be used for electric guitar knobs.

[Steve]

I made wheels for my sons' toys by the drill press method. I drilled a pilot hole in the centre and used a couple of inches of threaded rod, nuts and washers to make an arbor for the drill chuck,

I then clamped the drillpress on its back (it was a small one) , with a piece of wood clamped to the bed as a toolrest.

Worked really (wheely ?) well.

Steve

[BRuce]

[Silvan]

Hmmm... OK, fair enough. I don't think I've ever sharpened it.

[Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT]

Sun, Sep 7, 2003, 1:21am [e-mail] (Silvan) says: I've thought about using hole saws, but my experience is that they make pretty rough, ugly cuts too, and it's difficult to get the cut-off material back out of them without mangling it.

Hmm, I use a hole saw. Usually flip the plywood when about half thru, and finish that way. Slide a screwdriver in the slot, and slide it out. I start sorta slow, don't know if that makes a difference or not. Works great, only takes a few sandpaper swipes to smooth them.

JOAT Failure is not an option. But it is definitely a possibility.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 6 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Silvan]

Maybe I should try a hole saw that hasn't been used to cut through a couple of metal doors... Or else see if I can figure out how to sharpen this one. It may be that it's just dull.

I also need to figure out how to lay out the holes for the axles so that two wheels of differing diameters both contact the ground. I spent a couple hours out there today, and never managed to get one right. Time to drag out some *math* I guess, before I use up this whole box of Jummywood scraps.

[Bob Moody]

This is a golden opportunity for turning enthusiasts like me. I have ten grandchildren (although two are rather recent and not ready yet) and therefore have much wheel experience. Not only is it easy to make wheels on a lathe, they can be fancied up with flutes, grooves etc, even with a rim like real railroad trains use. The center hole for the axle is no problem. Cut it on a drill press using the center notch from the lathe spur hole as your guide. If you don't have dowels that size, turn them!

Bob Moody

[Silvan]

First I have to set about building that lathe... :)

I kind of wish I hadn't sold my old drill press. Sure, using it as a lathe would have killed the bearings eventually, but I wouldn't mind killing the bearings on my _old_ drill press. I've already done a few dozen turnings with my new one, and while it seems quite up to the challenge, I'm starting to develop a guilty conscience.

I think it's time for that shop-built lathe. How powerful are lathe motors usually? I have a treadmill that used to be a shop-built belt sander. I've been saving it to make a lathe eventually. Think it will be strong enough? I figure it's powerful enough to move a fat person, but I really have no idea.

[Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT]

Sun, Sep 7, 2003, 4:33pm [e-mail] (Silvan) claims: Maybe I should try a hole saw that hasn't been used to cut through a couple of metal doors..

Uh, yeah, that might be a good idea. Probably excellent, in fact.

I also need to figure out how to lay out the holes for the axles so that two wheels of differing diameters both contact the ground. I spent a couple hours out there today, and never managed to get one right. Time to drag out some *math* I guess, before I use up this whole box of Jummywood scraps.

If were going to complicate things, by using maths, I would. measure from the bottom of a wheel hole to the bottom of the wheel. Then add half the width of the hole. Same for each different size wheel.

Me, I don't mess with dangerous stuff like maths. I would just hold a wheel in place, put a pencil thru the hole, and mark the spot to drill. Or, you could just run the right size drill thru, and twist it a bit, to mark the spot.

You could do it with a decent compass (I found an excellent one at an office supply store, for about $1), but they have sharp points, and I won't recommend dangerous tool use to anyone on this group.

JOAT Failure is not an option. But it is definitely a possibility.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 7 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT]

Sun, Sep 7, 2003, 4:33pm [e-mail] (Silvan) says: Maybe I should try

Been awhile since I made any, so made 4 tonight, to double-check. I was gonna make 'em tomorrow, for my saw stand mod, anyway.

Well, 3 came out great, just sand around the edge, and they would make great wheels. The 4th, when I flipped the wood, I missed the pilot hole at first, and kinda goofed one side up. Even then, it would be acceptible, bad side in.

The only thing I can think of is, you haven't been sending any sacrifices along to the Woodworking Gods. Probably trying to cheap out, and do it on your own. You should know, when that happens, they pick on you. As their High Priest, I'm on their side.

JOAT Failure is not an option. But it is definitely a possibility.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 7 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Rick Frazier]

Silvan:

OK, this is going to sound like blasphemy to some, but after trying several ways to make wheels (all of which were successful, but just too time consuming) I just buy them in bags of a hundred or five hundred now.... They come in a bunch of sizes, and you just can't make them for anywhere near the cost you can buy them. They are more expensive if you go to the local craft shop and buy a package of 4 or 8, but still, it's hard to beat. You can use ordinary dowels for the axles (and glue the dowels to the holes in the wheels) or you can buy axle pegs, and glue the pegs to holes in the body of the car you are making. Axle pegs are slightly undersize for the holes in the wheels, and tend to look pretty good too. A bonus is that wheels are available in a rounded style or a flat, treaded style. (Most hobby shops only stock the rounded cross section). The "treaded" style looks particularly good on trucks. The rounded style looks good on most automotive and train cars.

Before I quit making them, I got really good at making them from pine using a holesaw, belt sander and router. If you insist on using this method, use a sharp holesaw (they're good for a hundred or two wheels or so before they get dull) and cut halfway through. Flip the board over and cut the wheel free from the other side. Grab the wheel (that is now sticking halfway out of the holesaw) with a pair of "channel lock" pliers and "unscrew" it from the pilot bit. A quick touch on the belt sander takes care of any rib down the center of the wheel. Next, on to the router, where I routed a smooth edge on the wheels. Set up the router in a router table, with a 1/4 inch quarter round bit (with ball bearing pilot) and a guard around the bit that has a cutout slightly larger diameter than the wheel, and about half of the circumference of the wheel "covered" such that you can slide the wheel into the half round guide/guard and rotate the wheel without danger of getting your fingers near the bit. I used a cover made of plexiglass over about half of the "opening" so it was pretty difficult to get your fingers into the bit unless you stuck them in without a wheel in place. Rotate the wheel against the rotation of the router bit a little over one full turn, flip over and repeat. It makes for a decent looking, but plain wheel, and without much danger of nipping fingers. Of course, once you've made a couple of hundred wheels of any size this way, if you have a choice you will buy them next time, unless you are just plain stubborn about making it all yourself.

If you are making steam engines, you will need to drill holes all the way through the body and glue wheels to dowel axles if you want to have a link between the two (or more) drivers on each side. The trick to getting them to work is to put the driver link on one side with the driver link towards the bottom of the two drivers, and on the opposite side near the center line of the two drivers. (you want them 90 degrees "out of phase" so as the driver link on one side nears the center line of the wheels, the link on the other side will be at either the top or bottom of it's arc, thereby preventing the wheels from turning in opposite directions. (if the links are in exactly the same locations on both sides, as the links come to the same horizontal plane as the axles, it is possible to turn the wheels in opposite directions for a few degrees, thereby locking both axles...) It's easier to demonstrate or draw than it is to explain, I suppose.

Good Luck

--Rick

Silvan wrote:

[George Devine]

A Vertilathe will solve your problem. You can turn 4 wheels with one set up and finish to exact dimensions. Check my web site below.

George

[WALT K]

I am gonna take a leap of faith and assume your takeing about the brio size wooden trains try useing a wooden plug cutter in a peice of hardwood set up the drill press so the plug cutter does not cut all the way through the peice of scrap your useing let him cut the holes like cutting out cookies after he has made as many holes as he can in one peice of wood run it through the table saw on edge with the plug holes to the out side so they fall away from the blade as you cut them

nother way is to take a peice of square stock the size of wheel you want use a quater round over bit on all four sides to make a round dowell then cut out yuor wheels like salami you can get plug cutters up to 1" through almost any woodworking catlog

[Chris]

I'll second that. My lathe will make more sawdust, more quickly and with less effort than any other tool in my shop :-)

-Chris

[Thomas Mitchell]

I also buy wheels. Don't own a lathe and consider it the only machine too dangerous to have in the shop. Might be because I haven't used one. I've found decent prices buying them in bulk at Howee's online. Not sure of the URL and I'm not an interested party other than suggesting a place that provides decent service with decent prices.

Thomas

Rick Frazier wrote:

[Silvan]

I can definitely imagine, based on the excuses I've been making to keep doing more and more dowel turnings in the drill press. I think I could waste a lot of time indeed, but space is a pretty big problem. I'll just about have to come up with something that I can knock down and store in a corner when I'm not using it.

[Silvan]

No, I haven't been. The last time I sacrificed anything to the gods, my crops withered and were absolutely miserable, so I decided I'm better off making my own luck.

[Silvan]

I finally got that to work (with a compass), but it proved difficult because it had to be *perfect* and I experienced quite a bit of difficulty avoiding

1/32" errors.

I probably could have evened things up sufficiently on my belt sander for that matter, but my belt sander has been out of comission for awhile now, and I don't have the patience to remove that much wood by hand sanding.

I'm close to building a hand crank for the stupid thing. That'd solve the problem. Maybe I could rig up a tredle and foot power it.

[Silvan]

Plug cutters... Now there's one I didn't think of. I even _have_ some plug cutters somewhere. Probably none big enough to fill this bill, but it's definitely an idea.