Looking for router lift recommendations

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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It's like I said before - the screaming you hear from a universal motor is the sound of the excess horsepower being sucked through the interdimensional vortex.
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Oh well, guess I have nothing to worry about then. I've got my own interdimensional vortex power tap.
Her name is Lucy...
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wrote:

The best primer I've seen on that subject:
http://www.kevinsbrady.net/motors.pdf
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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Good info is this and your other post, Tom. Thanks.
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-MIKE-

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wrote:

1 HP = 746 watts.
When you're talking about AC motors, the "real" horsepower output of the motor, regardless of the marketing hype, will be fairly close to:
HP = (.75 * Amps * Voltage)/746
Where Amps and Voltage are the dataplate values on the motor or appliance. The .75 fudge factor is a ball park estimate to account for electrical and mechanical efficiencies which are always less than 100% and for the AC power factor which will vary with the load on the motor. High load, higher power factor. Low load, lower power factor.
Overall motor efficiencies vary from type to type, and from model to model within the same type, but when comparing two similar motors, it's usually a good assumption that the higher amperage motor will be the more powerful of the two.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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-MIKE- wrote:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Shaper/G1035
My Dad has this model, and it's a lot of machine in a nice compact package. Beats the hell out of a router for swinging the big bits, and if you're running standard shaper cutters (instead of router bits) you also have the ability to invert the bit and reverse the motor rotation, which is *very* handy for certain profiles.
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Just out of interest's sake, how loud is your dad's shaper? Would you compare it to a 3 hp router which I'd brand as extremely loud or is it considerable more subdued?
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Upscale wrote:

The latter, definitely. More of a low-pitch throaty sound and not nearly as loud as the high-pitch scream of the universal motors found in your typical "3HP" router. Of course, shapers only spin the bit at about 10,000 RPM so that's a contributing factor too. Either machine is still going to make a fair amount of noise once you start cutting wood, but the shaper just seems to do it more quietly, and its sheer smoothness and power makes it more satisfying to use (IMO).
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Upscale wrote:

The router is the only power tool I hate, because of the sound. A shaper sounds great, a router screams. Before I got a shaper I made a router table, which works fine but ties up my router, and it doesn't have all the fancy lift and bit changing stuff like the routers people are buying now specifically to stick in a table.
Mostly now, I use my router for what it was designed, as a portable shaper, or if you like, my shaper is a stationary router. Both are good at there respective jobs, but mixing them up should only be to save money, one tool, two jobs. Buying a second router specifically for use as a shaper seems foolish, particularly when spending about the same amount of money... might as well go with the tool designed for the task.
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The only benefit I can see is a little bit of portability and being able to use the router out of the table. Not much benefit as far as I can see.
It never occurred to me and leads me to ask ~ is there *any* reason to buy a router and stick it in a table when one can get a decent shaper for the same money?
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Upscale wrote:

Shaper bits are *expensive*. Most shapers can accommodate router bits as well, but remember a shaper only spins at about 10,000 RPM (you don't need to go any faster when you're spinning those big bits), and that's almost painfully slow for something like a 1/4" straight bit.
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Are there any decently priced shapers on the market capable of router speeds? Or, is that a conflict of usage?
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Upscale wrote:

If there are, I'm not aware of them. My impression is that the ability of a shaper to accommodate router bits is a "nice to have" feature, but shapers are designed for the big jobs and router bits will either work for you or they won't depending on the job at hand. As much as I'd *love* to have a shaper, I only have room for so many machines and most of what I do can be handled by a router table. I'd have both if I had the room.
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Steve Turner wrote:

Bingo.
Shaper cutters have maximum tip speed ratings that would be exceeded at the higher rpm of a router. I can't imagine a manufacturer supplying a drive speed approaching that of a router w/ a shaper as it would be quite a complication to prevent it from being used w/ the normal spindles, not just w/ the router collet.
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I'm sure it's my lack of engineering comprehension, but I don't see why a shaper could not be manufactured that would be capable of the faster speeds when using router bits. Obviously there's some reason or someone would have marketed one already.
That brings me to another question along the same lines. You've got nailers that run on compressed air and now, you've got battery rechargeable nailers coming on the market. Why has there never been nailers manufactured that run on 120v power, bypassing the need for a compressor? What am I missing?
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Upscale wrote:

It's not that it couldn't, only that it would be more expensive for a (relatively) minor purpose of the machine.
In previous post I was mostly thinking of the liability issue of the simple solution of a simple variable-speed drive of then using the high speed w/ large cutters. As above, a solution for only the collet would be more complicated; ergo, expensive.

Airlines/tote-able compressors less pita factor than extension cord/genset is my guess. Weight could at least initially have been a factor as a secondary even more WAG...
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Product liability? Some fool sticking a shaper head in the thing and cranking it up to router speeds? Interlocks would be expensive and an unwanted complication.

My guess is that nailers are commonly used by carpenters where there isn't yet electrical power. Gasoline powered compressors are pretty common on job sites.
BTW, what is a gas nailer? I just ran across them on the Hitachi site, but there is no explanation.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: ...

Paslode was original. Use a combustible gas cannister (propane/butane, I think?) w/ a battery-powered electrical discharge to power the drive piston. Eliminates air hose at somewhat higher operating cost.
I think the Paslode site has good info; I didn't look but I presume www.paslode.com will get you there.
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dpb wrote:

I rented the Paslode to build my house. The thing would jam up after it got too hot. I hope they fixed that. When it worked, it was incredible-- powerful and very light.
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-MIKE-

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Thanks. I can see where that would save time/money. The fuel cells aren't cheap though. As little as I use a framing nailer, I'll stick to air. ;-)
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