Looking for design input, please (long)

[Thomas Bunetta]

The latest honey-do is two sets of Barrister bookcases (three cases next to two cases side by side two sets of each) to be made from cherry. I have begun making wide boards from skinny ones (g) and have 3 sets of plans (magazine how-to's). Problem is they all are designed to be against the wall and SWMBO wants these to act as a sort of room divider, both sides visible. The plans all call for 1/4" plywood backs (and I have no 1/4" cherry ply, nor any easily accessible) but I have a pretty good supply of rough sawn cherry. Question is whether I should go thru the trouble of making a laminated back (re-saw, join for two sides of 1/4 birch ply, etc.) or simply use solid wood (MUCH faster!)... if so eye appeal suggests the grain run vertically to match the sides, but that means edge mating a fair number of narrow boards to arrive at the 34-35" width of the bookcases. It also suggests a far greater range of seasonal movement as compared to running the grain perpendicular to the shelves. What'cha think... Laminate, vertical or horizontal grain? BTW I'm envisioning a frame and panel type placement, with the back panel slid into dadoes. Thanks in advance, Tom

[Bob Schmall]

Tom: It appears that both sides of the cases will be visible, and seeing the back side of a case is not the most esthetically satisfying setup. If you must show the back side, I'd vote for edge gluing to get the 34-35" width for the panels. It means a lot more work in matching the vertical grain, but it will make the best of an unusual situation. As alternatives, why not make the cases double thick, with glass doors on each side, or make twice as many...8-)... and place them back-to-back, or make them as designed and place an open bookcase, plant shelf, knickknack shelf, etc. against the back side?

Bob

[Matthias Mühe]

Hi Tom,

I recently fixed an old book case with a back made from roughly 1/4" pine. The back is about 36" wide and 40" tall. It had shrunk over the years in width by 1/2 to 3/4 ".

After cutting out the broken piece, I inserted a new piece of pine which went much easier then expected (just had to slightly clamp it on a flat surface before applying pressure over the width).

So gluing-up the wide back in solid wood should not cause a problem.

Anyhow, watching the amount of shrinkage over that width would make me split the back into half and have a support in the middle of the bookcase rebated on both sides to allow for movement of the back.

Have fun

Matthias

[Leuf]

I would run the grain horizontal, but do raised panels if you're going to use solid wood.

-Leuf

[makesawdust]

Gluing up a solid back could very well resort in problems due t seasonal changes in the width of the back. If you have never built raised panel door and are not tooled for the task, you may want t consider going with a flat panel approach with mortise and tenons. Make sure that the panels are not glued into the frame, so they ca expand and contract. You may even want to pre-finish the panels.

Good luck

-- makesawdust

[Richard Clements]

why put a back on it at all? put a small 1/4 or so lip on both sides of the bottom shelf and put boos in from both sides, or build 2 books cases back to back, also from what I understand if you put a cherry stain on Birch it comes very close to looking like cherry or birch plywood may be a thought

[Alan Bierbaum]

I would use either vertical shiplaped boards (1/8" space) or frame and panel. Either would be historically correct and pleasing to the eye.

[Thomas Bunetta]

Hi Bob, thanks for your input... Doubling up is not do-able as there are space limitations... I had also come to the conclusion that edge glueing would be better looking... hadn't considered shiplap as suggested below, it sounds good too! Thanks again, Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

Hi Matthias,

I plan to look up the tangential shrinkage for cherry (proper term?) and would accomodate with a deep enough dado and a wide enough edge (raised panel) or if suggested below I go shiplapped (still thinking how best to impliment that one) leave enough wood so annual changes will not show. The pieces will be pre-finished (planning on a wash coat of super blonde shellac, tung oil and either more shellac or possibly the mix DJM touts so highly) so expantion and contraction won't reveal unfinished wood. Thanks for your thoughts, Tom

Thanks for your input, Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

Hi Leuf, A curiosity... do you think the horizontal grain would look as good as vertical (it would be a lot easier, and shrinkage and expantion will be reduced due to narrower tangential cross section. Thanks for your time, Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

[Thomas Bunetta]

You don't know my SWMBO! One of the designs is for frame and panel ends... one look and she exclaimed "I don't want to dust all those edges!!!" Made my life easier! The back must be enclosed, wood, glass or something! The width of a double unit is not feasible due to space limitations. I'd thought about trying to stain birch ply, but then I'd have to (shudder) stain Cherry ... If I did that, every Klown Hammer from the Cabal would smite me and the Ghost of Paully Rad would forever haunt me! Thanks for your assistance, Tom

[Thomas Bunetta]

The shiplapped idea had not occured to me, Thanks! If frame and panel, vertical or horizontal grain? Thanks for sharing, Tom

[J T]

Tue, Nov 30, 2004, 8:51am [e-mail] (Thomas=A0Bunetta) wonders: if so eye appeal suggests the grain run vertically to match the sides,

The Woodworking Gods can't find that in any rule they wrote. They also say you could probably have the side grain run horizontally too, if matching was so important. Personally, I think vertical sides, and horizontal back would look fine.

They also can't find any rule they wrote that says you have to make the whole thing out of just one kind of wood. Besides, it's cherry, so your gonna paint it anyway, right?

JOAT Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind dont matter, and those who matter dont mind.

- Dr Seuss

[Bill Wallace]

Frame and panel is the way to go on this. The Barrister type books case designs are from late 19th early 20th century originally. The ole' Stickley boys used frame and panel interchangably with solid sides/backs on all case work. In fact many designs could be ordered either way so you can stay true to the design no prob.

Do flat panels with just a single center stile. It will be fun to resaw some of that Cherry and plane it out nice and flat. You might try and use some similar dimensions for the rail and stiles as you use for the glass fram on the front. However, if the design you have has really small frame pieces just pick some bigger width.

You can also match the rail/stile details to those on the glass front frame. For instance, if the frame has a round over or chamfer relief, do something similar on the frame.

The frame and panel also gives a much more appealing look with all the shadows, etc, versus a three stack of cases that look like a fence or a retaining wall with just plain wood slats.

[Leuf]

I think that the grain usually runs vertically simply because panels are usually longer vertically. Consider the other pieces in the room. If it's going to be adjacent to something else with the grain going vertically I might convince myself it was worth matching it, but I think I would break up the panels with one or more stiles. I think that might end up looking too busy though, on top of being a heckuva lot more work and I would have talked myself back into going horizontal.

Or perhaps you could leave the backs unfinished and make a free standing room divider to put behind them. Could end up being more useful down the road if you rearrange things at some point.

-Leuf

[Thomas Bunetta]

[Thomas Bunetta]

They also can't find any rule they wrote that says you have to make the whole thing out of just one kind of wood. Besides, it's cherry, so your gonna paint it anyway, right?

Jeez JOAT, you REALLY like to tempt the Woodworking Gods, don't you Tom

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:54:50 -0500, "Thomas Bunetta" spake the words:

A Honey Double-Do? No way.

OK, how about butting a 3/4" solid-edged, inlay-patterned, cherry plywood panel to the back of each vertical set, perhaps held by pocket screws from the inside? That would give you a gorgeous back and lend even more stability to the cases. The inlay could be something suggested by the room it will face. Or maybe a proud-surfaced intarsia look would be more to your or her liking. Either way, it would be a replaceable look which could change as you wanted it to.

------------------------------------------------------------- give me The Luxuries Of Life *

i can live without the necessities * 2 Tee collections online

-------------------------------------------------------------

[Lewis]

Hi, How about mail-ordering some cherry veneer? Make a nice book-matched panel for the back of each bookcase. Lewis