Lie-Nielson chisels

Page 1 of 2  
I've decided to replace my plastic-handled, low-to-medium quality chisels with some Lie-Nielson bevel edge socket chisels. I'll be using them mostly for cutting dovetails. I'm not sure if I want their regular sized ones or the long handled ones. Any opinions among those of you who've tried them?
Thanks, Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I bought the regular sized chisels. The handles are easy to change. You can order a long handle and try it out. The long handles are normally for paring a joint.
I have not tried the long handle chisels.
Another thought is to buy just one chisel with both handles and decide for yourself. The buy the rest of them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Probably not what you want to hear, but socket chisels aren't really necessary for dovetail work, which involves considerably less whacking and more paring.
Any good bevel edged chisel with a long reach is dandy for paring and general work. Sockets, thick sections and square edges for the heavy stuff. One good thing, these won't be "equivalent" sizes, but real inch stuff to go with the rest of your tooling. Means a lot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This really depends on how good you are with the saw... personally, I do next to no paring for dovetails. I use an L-N dovetail saw and the vast majority of the pins fit the tails coming right off the saw once the waste is chopped out. The only paring I ever do is after cutting the pins and before marking and cutting the tails--this is to straighten out the occassional pin that isn't quite right.

I prefer longer paring type chisels for chopping dovetail waste as I hold the chisels down low and by the blade rather than by the handle... it's a control thing. Also, once I establish a reference shoulder I whack the chisel pretty hard to chop the waste out. Chopping waste need not be a slow process.
For really fine dovetails in thin stock I took a 2 MM No 2 carving chisel I picked up when the local Woodcraft store went belly up last spring. I reshaped it into a regular chisel profile so I can chop the tail waste. Before that I used a small screw driver that I ground into a chisel. When you have pins little more than an 1/8" to 3/16" wide at the thick end there isn't much room for removing the waste from the tails!
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:12:52 GMT, "John Grossbohlin"

I don't with a router jig, either!
Hey, every time we discuss jigs someone jumps in with "cut them by hand", and so turnabout is fair play. <G>
That said, a pal o' mine has the LN chisels and they really are nice! Not nice enough to ditch my current, perfectly usable chisels, but totally up to LN standards.
I'm with the camp that dosen't chop often, as I usually clean out waste on my hand cuts with a band saw or freehand trim router, depending on the dovetail type, and then simply pare to the final fit. I don't own a good hand saw. While some purists may not call that "hand cut", I don't care because I'm still laying them out by hand and freehanding all the tools. No jigs or mechanical guidance is involved, the machines simply save a few minutes.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I usually cut mine freehand with a bandsaw as well- while I do have a pretty nice dovetail saw, I'm one of those guys that learned to saw with a japanese pull-saw, and cutting on the push stroke feels wrong to me, so I usually just jump on the bandsaw. One day, I'll get a japanese dovetail saw, but there's always more desire than there is time or money.
No chopping on my part, either. I don't have LN chisels, but I do have some very nice Craftsman black-handled ones (yeah, I know- but they are good chisels, so the Sears bashers can just back off) that will do the job nicely with hand pressure and a little rocking back and forth to shave the sides and backs.
I call 'em hand-cut as well- I never attempt to get right to the line with the bandsaw, and all the tuning is hand chisel work, so I figure that's fair enough.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
An alternative to choping out dovetails with a chisel: Get a jewelers saw and fit it with a medium-fine scroll saw blade. Slide it down the kerf cut with the dovetail saw, then saw the cut at the bottom of the dovetail slot. Scoring the cut line with a marking knife will help guide the jewelers saw. A little chisel work may still be needed to make a sharp corner at the bottom of the slots.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

As I said, I don't "chop" or "whack" a lot on dovetails. Bottom with the cope and pare _the bottom_ with the chisel to clean up from the set in the teeth. I also undercut a touch like Ol' Roy does. Better a gap than a bump.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:12:52 GMT, "John Grossbohlin"

Just curiious about where (in what city) a Woodcraft stone went belly up? They all seem to do so well. Was it terribly mismanaged?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Latham, NY - Near Albany, Schenectady, Troy.
Here was a thread on it:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_frm/thread/e69914c53d76f1d3/c08941dec55244e6?lnk=gst&q=latham+woodcraft&rnum=1&hl=en#c08941dec55244e6
John Grossbohlin said
"The owner's cited being required to stock large quantities of slow moving merchandise, carving chisels and hardware in particular, and that tied up their cash. Another problem was that the slick, high profile location was expensive. They bled cash until they couldn't bleed any more... "
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bruce Barnett wrote:

Does anyone know if that store had any sort of school attached?
The two Woodcraft stores near me would probably go under without a school, as well.
Why? So many don't know HOW to use higher-end tools and finishing materials. To the uneducated, all of the stuff looks like over priced foo-foo stuff. After class, you can tell what is and what's not. <G>
We have access to fantastic learning opportunities taught by both talented and experienced locals and well-known author types. Personally, I can't believe the progress I've been able to make, as the hands-on classes have make book and 'wreck information totally make sense.
The owner of one of our local school runs fantastic classes that are top-notch experiences and NOT tool sales demos.
I can totally understand a higher-end tool store not making it without local training opportunities.
Two of many examples:
1.) Higher-end planes and chisels seem like over priced, over rated ripoffs, aimed at snoot pattoots, until you actually get to use one for a few hours under the eyes of an experienced craftsperson. In the same class, you are taught new methods of work and leave with the knowledge to keep your tools sharp and in tune. With a bit more solo practice, you realize that the foo-foo plane replaces expensive specialty jigs, genuinely saves time, and becomes a fantastic value, as it dovetails with your machines.
2.) Finishing. We spend 80 hours building a piece, then we try to complete the part that the user actually sees and touches FIRST in 3 minutes. <G> Spending 25-30 hours, over 8-9 evenings, with a guy or gal who does this stuff every day, and has for 20+ years is truly eye-opening and will so quickly improve our work that it's mind boggling.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
writes:

Yes, they had a class room and ran classes regularly. The selection of classes was eclectic... They had classes on making guitars and classes on turning. I don't recall any flat-boarder classes but that could be faulty memory on my part.
One thing that may have actually worked against them is that there is a large and very active woodworking club in the area. It was started in the Schenectady area by a half dozen GE employees and has grown to nearly a 1,000 members. I'm the treasurer for the Mid-Hudson Chapter of Northeastern Woodworkers Association as well as for the turners SIG, Kaatskill Woodturners Association. We've got two shops, one in Stillwater and the other in Hurley and also use other locations for training. I'm not sure what the student count is per year for all the classes but I understand that most are filled to capacity.
As a 501C3 educational corporation we subsidize the classes for members. A one day class typically costs $20 + materials. If we have in a big name non-member come in and teach the cost may be more, e.g, Garret Hack is on the schedule for a two day program this spring for $175 (sold out). Ernie Conover and Roy Underhill have also done programs. Woodcraft cannot compete with that....
As I mentioned previously, the product mix at Woodcraft doesn't fit my desires very well, but that's me. I'm sure there are a lot of carvers, turners, and others that find their mix just fine. I know guys in the club shopped at Woodcraft but many of them also complained about the prices and bought elsewhere.
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yet, the more specialized your needs get, the less the price matters, so long as you get the item. The market they reach for at Woodcraft. The guy fixing the cabinet under the sink goes to Home Depot anyway.
Guy with displays and all-day sales people rather than picker/packer part-timers isn't really competitive with the mail-order crowd. Then there's the tax setup on inventory, the rent and upkeep, and who knows, maybe there are franchise qualifications to interfere with good business practices too. I remember how I used to have to wait for my local equipment dealer to get a commitment for a minimum order before I could get a certain power tool. Where a local club might have helped. "It's Makita month, all members get your requests in ...."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
John Grossbohlin wrote:

Seems like they missed a great opportunity for an alliance with the club.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The store did participate in our annual show and some other events... guys in the club spoke favorably of the store. However, I think where they had some problems was that the guys who used tools up (contractors, cabinet shops) weren't shopping there. The Woodworker's Warehouse in Kingston, on the other hand, always had commercial buyers in there. For example, I know one local cabinet shop owner that would buy a half dozen or more sanders per year there as well as many other items. The store had the stuff in stock and the cabinet shop wore stuff out... a good match! On the other hand, a hobbyist carver was going to buy one 12 mm No 5 carving gouge in a life time...
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
John Grossbohlin wrote:

Interesting...
The very successful appearing, visibly growing, Manchester, CT store is across the street from a former WWW, and 15 minutes from Coastal Tool. There is (was) very little overlap between the Woodcraft store and the other two. The owner of the Woodcraft even mentions Coastal during his classes as a good source of power tools.
The power tools this Woodcraft has are not available at Coastal, like General, Jet, Festool, CMT, Freud, and Whiteside. Coastal pretty much has the Makita, DeWalt, PC, Bosch, and Delta, as well as "contractor" items like Stabila levels, electrician's tools, compressors, air nailers and 5 foot cat's paws nailed down. Sorry, bad pun... <G>
Coastal and the former WWW stock(ed) zero high quality hand tools, high quality finishing materials, books & videos, hardware, etc... The overlap between WC and Coastal is mainly clamps, new Stanley garbage, and a small number of handheld power tools, as well as a few supplies, like Kreg screws, glue, and biscuits.
Manchester often had at least half a store of stuff not in the Woodcraft catalog (mainly Lee Valley distributed brands) that eventually made it into the catalog. He's really set himself off as a fine 'dorker's store vs. a contractor supply house. The Orange, CT Woodcraft is similar.
Before Woodcraft was green glint in someone's eyes (and well before the web), we had Tools Plus, Coastal, and several yellow WWW stores. The owner of the Manchester store ran a small independent school and fine woodworking supply shop out of a local millwork shop. Since he had experience, I wonder if he was able to deal with WC Central on a slightly different level than some francise owners.
It's all very interesting... <G>
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<<The power tools this Woodcraft has are not available at Coastal, like General, Jet, Festool, CMT, Freud, and Whiteside. Coastal pretty much has the Makita, DeWalt, PC, Bosch, and Delta>>
Woodcarft in Manchester also carries Steel City. Coastal doesn't.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:33:36 -0500, "Lee Gordon"

FWIW, the same guy who has the Manchester Woodcraft has one in Springfield, MA as well. And there's a place in Enfield, Brian's Tool Sales, that has quite a lot (I've never spent enough time in there to see what all he does carry or how his prices compare). For finishing supplies by the way, Clark Paint Company in Springfield (a few blocks from the Woodcraft) has most of the ML Campbell line in stock at what appear to be good prices--for anything that they and Woodcraft don't have there's a Sherwin Williiams Professional store about a half a mile down the street and a Sherwin Williams Automotive store (stock just about the whole 3M line of finishing supplies) a couple or three blocks from there.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How? If club members were buying elsewhere because of price, the only way to get them to buy at Woodcraft would be to offer lower prices. It could be Woodcraft is charging an absorbent markup. Don't know. Or it could be a markup that covers costs and provides an appropriate profit. Don't know. If the latter then cutting costs means the store isn't going to be around long. If meeting the cost of an internet seller, Amazon, means the Woodcraft is selling for less than its cost, it won't be around long.
The Woodcraft I know that went out of business was affiliated with the local woodworking club. Club is about 300+ members. Woodcraft offered the usual 10% off of non power tools every day of the week to club members. Woodcraft also runs those 10% off sales on everything in the store in July I think. And birthday month 10% off. And other Delta days, DeWalt days, etc. where those brands are 10% off. And various sales on items every month too. But if the sale price after discount at Woodcraft is still 10% above Amazon or other mail order, it still isn't going to get the sale. And the Woodcraft had some of the club meetings such as scroll sawers at the store.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com writes:

That borders on one of the reasons I was beginning to dislike Woodcraft stores.
I try to maximize my purchase dollar. I'd show up with my birthday 10% coupon on a sale day, and tried to get the additional 10% off. No deal. I could get the sale price, or the 10% off list price, but never both.
Every other store I shopped at allowed me to combine sales prices with 10% coupons. But not Woodcraft.
At one time they would have special sales-of-the-week that was something of high quality. But then they started offering cheapo Chinese junk at a price that was higher than the Harbor Freight equivalent.
They had a special "sale" section, and the prices of items there were often marked up, and then reduced.
I have two pieces of ebony bought about a year apart. The first was $30. The second was 60% the size/BF, for $59.99 - on sale for 20% off - or $48. It should have been $18 if the price remained the same. I realize that ebony might have increased in price. But it's hard for me to feel that I got a sale price when I hold the two pieces side by side.
When the store closed, I began to distrust their sales price. When it said SALE - I had to compare it to previous prices and other stores before I believed it.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.