Letter To Grizzly

[Just Dave]

I emailed this to their customer service dept.

--------------------------------------------------------- The week of Christmas 2003 I ordered the following on separate days:

G0500 8" x 75" Jointer with 4 Blade Cutterhead G1029 2 H.P. Dust Collector G1023SLX 10" Left Tilting Saw with 7' Rails and Extension Table

All three had problems and needed the following:

G1029: Box was damaged and needed a replacement of the base plate This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.

G1023SLX: Boxes were damaged and needed a replacement of the extension table and I had to go to Lowes and buy more bolts to put the thing together. This caused a delay in building the unit and using it.

G0500: Ordered it, the shipping company lost it and I had to have a replacement shipped. Box & crate were damaged. The extension to the in feed and out feed were bad casts, had new ones shipped to me, the in feed of that replacement is bad and now I have to wait weeks for a replacement. The blades were dull and I now I have to wait weeks for those as well. This is still causing a delay in building the unit and using it.

Three orders and all three with problems. I don't know about you, but I would call that pretty piss poor shipping and quality control.

Now $2200 is a huge purchase for me and the next time I buy any woodworking machinery, I'll shop Delta or Jet. I've never had issues with them! Also, I've turned several people on to you and your company, not anymore. Now when people ask what I think of Grizzly, I'll have this story to share!

[TomL]

Just curious as to why, after having no issues with Delta or Jet, you decided to go Grizzly???

TomL

[Nova]

From Grizzly's web site:

"What is F.O.B.? F.O.B. stands for "Free On Board" and is usually applied to items that are too heavy to ship via UPS. "Free On Board" means that we are responsible for putting the freight on the truck.

It looks like you complaint should be directed to the trucking company.

-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

[Dusty]

Although I have purchased several thousand dollars worth of equipment from Grizzly, it's not a company that I would buy 'sight unseen' from. I am 'only' 350 miles down I5 from the Bellingham Grizzly store and have visited twice, both times buying enough to fill the back of my pickup. I am happy with the radial arm drillpress, floor model spindle sander and combination sander. All are accurate, dependable tools. Their packaging is shoddy, the drillpress, which I picked up at the outlet store, had broken free from the crate and was all over the warehouse. It was the only one in stock at the time. Grizzly's parts man assured me that all the parts were there and they repackaged it for me, sending me on my way. As it turned out, it was all there and in good working order! They buy their machinery from many different sources and therefore have wide degrees of quality and quality control.

[Unisaw A100]

That would be so if the buyer selected the freight company and paid that bill direct to them but if I'm not mistaken the buyer's contract was with Griz-a-lee and Griz-a-lee alone.

UA100

[eugenec173]

FOB means freight on board. If it is for example FOB Bellingham Wa., this means that the customer pays the shipping charges form Bellingham Wa. If the shipping terms are FOB destination, this means the freight is prepaid by the seller. FOB point just establishes who pays the freight charges. UPS really doesn't enter the picture. If the item comes by UPS and the customer pays the shipping, it is still FOB Bellingham in the case of Grizzly.

Gene

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:23:10 -0500, "Just Dave" brought forth from the murky depths:

What are you busting Grizzly's chops for? MOST of your problems were from the trucking company, NOT Grizzly. I understanding letting them know, but your gripe really should be with the shipper.

I've received several shipments from Grizzly (via Oak Harbor Freight and FedEX Motor Freight) and have never had a single problem with either the machinery or the trucking.

OK, half of that problem is Grizzly's alone. Suckage!

You most assuredly will the next time you buy from them. I've heard almost as many gripes about new Delta stuff here than I have for Harbor Freight's machinery. Check the Wreck for the past 2 years or so since the Delta buyout/restructuring and you'll see what I mean. And Jet seems to get the gripes for the past year or so.

--== May The Angst Be With You! ==-- -Yoda, on a bad day --

Ending Your Web Page Angst.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Tough call. Yes, the trucking company has a lot of responsibility for the obviously rough handling, but Grizzly has anobligation to package everything is a manner to prevent damage under MOST conditions. Every shipper knows freight can be handled roughly at times. The National Safe Transit Authority sets standards for what may be encountered and has tests for packaging.

We really need to know more and to examine the package before making a decision.

NOTE: The carrier should be involved and the receiving slip should have been signed noting damaged containers. That makes collecting easier when damage is found later. Ed [e-mail]

[Just Dave]

All shipping forms were marked as damaged and the reason I'm busting Grizzly's chops -vs- the freight is because (outside of the dust collector -

1 box) all the damaged parts were in perfect boxes.

The table saw came in 5 boxes. The extension table was in a great looking box and damaged prior to backing. It was also missing bolts and had to hit lowes for parts.

The jointer had poor casts for the extra 5 in. infeed and outfeed table and the replacment infeed was bad as well. The knifes were dull and the inside bolt holes were not taped. This comes from poor quality control not a freight company!

Point is, purchased 3 machines a month ago and I still don't have all the parts to make them run. Shipper or no, the blame falls on Grizzly cause they pick the shipper not me, I just get to pay for them.

[Rick Chamberlain]

Your original post said otherwise - that the boxes were damaged. Did you misspeak the fist time or the second?

As for picking the shipper - you are correct that you have no choice in the matter. I would venture to say that there is no way you could get rates as low as what Grizzly charges, even with Freightquote.

If the boxes weren't damaged, then you have a beef with Griz. If they were, talk to the shipper.

[Just Dave]

I had both damaged and undamaged boxes.

Dust Collector - 1 Box - Damaged - Freight's Fault

Jointer - 1 box - Damaged, 1 Crate - Not Damaged - Grizzly's fault, (damaged items were from the casts not damaged boxes)

Table Saw - 5 boxes - 3 damaged, 2 Not Damaged Grizzly's fault, (actually ShopFox's fault putting a damaged item into a perfect box!)

Yeah the shipping is cheap and it's not like a didn't expect mishaps with shipping, but I have hours of long distance charges to get replacements for damaged (from Grizzly not the freight) items, have to get a tap to fix the jointer and wait weeks for back ordered replacements for dull blades and bad casts.

That to me seems a little much.

[Chris]

Have to agree with the others - shipping company is to blame. If you chose not to shop with them anymore because of their choice of SHIPPING companies then you have a beef, but only the jointer seemed to be defective. However I have to agree that if I were in your situation I might be hesitent to order from them again.

On the other hand, it seems that their customer service is pretty good. They got the replacement parts out to your fairly quickly with no hassels, right?

-Chris

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:44:27 -0500, "Just Dave" brought forth from the murky depths:

You should have put more of these details in your first post. The way it was originally worded, the damage appeared to be from the shipper, not Griz, so your credibility took a hit.

Granted. And there's no excuse for that, so shame on Griz.

You can pick your own shipper, but expect to pay 3 to 4 times what Griz charges for freight.

--== May The Angst Be With You! ==-- -Yoda, on a bad day --

Ending Your Web Page Angst.

[Just Dave]

you may want to re-read my last post.

[Nova]

There are two types of "FOB", "Origin" and "Destination". They are defined as follows as extracted from Roadway Express's web site (

):

F.O.B Origin - ?F.O.B. Origin? means that title and risk pass to the buyer at the moment of the seller's delivery to the carrier. The parties may agree to have title and risk pass at a different time or to allocate freight charges by a written agreement.

F.O.B. Destination - ?F.O.B. Destination? changes the location where title and risk pass. Under this arrangement, title and risk remain with the seller until they have delivered the freight to the delivery location specified in the contract.

By the wording on Grizzly's web site, "we are responsible for putting the freight on the truck", I'd say they're shipping "F.O.B Origin".

-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

[Daniel Martin]

With the competition today companies are trying all to cut costs. Packaging is one of them. Imagine a table saw being shipped in the

50's. The box would probably be wood not cardboard. One of the worst things for transport is weight. WW tools have all one thing in common they are very heavy. Even with the technology that we have today, WW tools are still heavy and will continue to be.

So that's why I like to pick any large tool that I'm putting money into. If the box looks like its been through hell, well I want to see the contents or at least I want the next one if possible.

Daniel

[Jay]

Please note that I am not attempting to flame you, I appreciate the crap you've gone through, and I'm sure we all can relate. However, as a frequent corporate letter writer, and freebie getter, I have a decent experience in writing effective complaint letters to companies so I thought I might offer some suggestions.

Your letter is likely to wind up in the trash. Here's what I've learned about writing to companies.

1. Never email. It is way too easy to hit delete.

1. Never negotiate with underlings. Write the CEO personally and copy the relavant department. Hand-address the envelope and type the letter. Find out the CEO's name using either Annual reports or other means, address the envelope to that person. There is nothing a busy executive hates more than having to waste thier time dealing with pissed off customers. There is nothing more managers hate than dealing with pissed off bosses. Remember, crap rolls downhill.

2. Don't write with a problem, write with an answer. Don't purely bitch. You must quickly point out that you are trying to help the CEO improve thier business and not lose more customers. Suggest a solution. Telling them that they have already lost a customer makes it a moot point. However, telling them that they MIGHT lose a customer is a great way to get discounts, rebates, or a plain-old check. Don't be afraid to offer a suggestion. For example, "To restore my faith in your shipping, I suggest that my next 3 orders should ship for free."

1. If they really have lost a customer, write the competition and copy the company. The competition can use the testimonial letter. This also has the potential to make the company want to win you back.

2. For really bad things, copy everyone. For an airline complaint, I once wrote the CEO, copied the VP of customer relations, the airport, the FAA, the FTC, and the local TV station's "Consumer watchdog". For a car repair shop, I once copied the competition so they would have a testimonial letter. I got a free ticket and a free oil change, respectively ;).

1. Be just as loose with praise. If I get good customer service, I send letters as well, although I do not send them as high up the food chain.

These are all just suggestions of course. Sometime it is just plain therapeutic to write a bitch letter.

jay

replace junk with jay to reply.

[Nova]

Unless things have changed you can't select your own shipper with Grizzly. I tried that a number of years ago when I was about to purchase a bandsaw.

My brother-in-law was the manager for a trucking outfit that made daily runs through Williamsburg, PA. He was willing to have a driver swing by and put the saw on a truck headed to Buffalo. Grizzly wouldn't allow the truck at their dock. Grizzly's reason was they have exclusive contracts with the shippers that they use to obtain the shipping prices they offer. They said allowing an independent trucking company at their dock would jeopardize those contracts.

-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

[C]

Did you try calling and talking to a customer service rep?

[Unisaw A100]

So you're thinking that I'd have to arrange my own trucking?

I'm thinking maybe the Web page was written by the same putz that's doing Woodcraft's catalog copy or this is a way to side step some liability?

UA100