length of dust collection run


Hello,
I have a 1HP Delta dust collector and a cyclone chip collector on top of a trash can. I am redoing my shop and would like to put the collector at one end and run 4" flex pipe, I got it for free, to my machines. The setup would run along one wall of my shop and I would use "y's" to the machines and I would not have any 90 degree corners. I would only use one machine at a time so I would use blast gates to close the others of while not in use.
My question is how far can I make the run from the collector to the last machine. Or should I by a new dust collector and put this one on EBay.
Thanks
Larry C
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I have done a similar thing, although I had to run the ducting overhead with a 90 degree going up and "T"s for each drop station. It works fine, so far. Try it and see how it goes. If you need to replace the DC for a bigger one, you will know.
Steve

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How far was your run?

a
not
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My garage is 25' long, so it was about that.
Steve

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run
along
Make the run as long as you need it. If it works, fine, if not you still have the run installed - get a new DC. Either way, you win!
Vic
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Depends. Try it out. You will certainly get better results using smooth pipe--flex pipe has a lot of turbulence and better used in short lengths to specific machines that require some movement. Your 1 HP DC would be great for a dedicated machine--don't sell it unless you're short on space.
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Larry - I have the same Delta DC, with a 48 gal trash can (I think that's the size) that's a home made cyclone, and a "Y" with 4" flex that goes from the can to my jointer and to my planer (a 13" Rigid). I also have a 2" line that I use for general clean up and connection tools like my routers and sanders. The 4" runs are about 8', and I have about 12' of 2" - each run has it's own gate.
I've probably set this up wrong (I hope someone may tell me if I did, and give me some suggestions), but it works fairly well with the jointer, and it's good with the small tools and general clean-up using the 2" hose. It's not great suction (not a good as my Shopvac, which REALLY sucks), but it does the job.
The planer is another matter. While it gets most of the chips, I'd say about 10% get ejected out the front of the planer. Maybe it's because planers just create a lot of debris. I've made sure the DC fittings are tight, and that the collector in the planer is clear and clean and free of build up, but I still get a lot of stuff out the front of it..
Anyway, it should work ok for you. It might help to use smooth tubing and run the flex off from that, and minimize the length of flex hose as much as possible. If I was doing it again, I'd probably spend a little more and get a 1 1/2 hp unit or a 2 hp unit.
Just my $.02 -
Nick B

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Nick Bozovich wrote:

Nick, Your runs should be all 4" and reduced as close to the machinery as possible. This would improve your suction, and may even help your planer.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7
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I don't as yet have a DC but I am looking at one similar to yours. I plan on putting it in the middle of the run with the tablesaw on one side and the jonter and router on the other. I also plan on putting blast gates on each side of the DC so the suction only goes to one side or the other.
Blast Blast Blast Blast Blast |--------------|---- DC ----|---------|------------| | | | | | | Tablesaw Jointer Router
Might be overkill on the gates but it should do the job. I plan on using my shop vac for my handheld tools so that is not an issue. Also I plan on using 2 1/2" tubing with reducers at the tools with the hopes to increase suction in the main run.
Maybe this won't work but hopefully someone will tell me so.
Lars
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Flexhose has 3 times the static pressure losses as straight-walled ducting. If you run any more than 3 or 4 feet, you will lose an awfull lot of suction.
Steve
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While I agree there will be some loss with flex, I think that the above might be overstating the issue. For example, take a 10' length of flex curved to form a 90 deg bend over it's length. Then take a 10' piece of pipe and put an elbow in the middle to form the same 90 deg bend. Which will suffer the most loss? The fact is that some elbows and some flex are necessary. A little perspective is in order.
I have some flex that has a very smooth ID. I also have drainage pipe with a visible spiral pattern on the ID. You certainly want to choose flex with the smoothest ID you can find.
-- ******** Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com
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A good reference book on dust collection is 'Woodshop Dust Control,' by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. A couple good online resources are www.pillpentz.com and http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=&folderType=&webtag=airfiltration .
Flexhose generates static pressure losses very close to 3x that of smooth-walled duct. Any 45 degree bend at 1.5 radius has SP losses equal to 6 feet of smooth duct, and any 90 degree bend at 1.5 radius has SP losses equal to 12 feet of smooth duct.
If you have a cyclone system with a 14" impeller and a blower motor that draws 10A/120V or 20A/240V, then you don't need to worry much about bends and flex--unless you have a big shop. If you have any smaller system than this, you will need to try and keep the flex and bends to a minimum.
Steve
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Not trying to argue here Steve, just furthering the discussion - but does the above statement come from the S.N. book? There was a time when flex commonly had the same spiral on the inside as the outside. I could accept that 3x figure with that type of flex. However, for years now the flex vendors have made flex which is smooth on the inside, as smooth as most pipe. So I don't accept that figure on face value. No doubt the flex manuf. developed the smooth wall product due to widespread knowledge of the pressure loss, so we owe Sandor thanks for that. But things have changed since the published date of 1996. Of course, flex layed out with bends like a snake, or tied in a knot, would cause high loss, as would elbow fittings.

Correct, and commonly accepted among the various plumbing trades.

You have the amp/voltage backward, an easy typo to make, but yes more HP will forgive many plumbing mistakes.
-- Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop
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Bill says, < However, for years now the flex vendors have made flex which is smooth on the inside, as smooth as most
pipe. So I don't accept that figure on face value>
Yes, I've gotten that value from Nagor's book. I'm just scratching my head here at work trying to remember how smooth, or not, is the wall of my flexhose :-) If the flexhose has a smooth-wall surface without ridges, then I would figure the only extra SP would be for any bends/ kinks, etc.
Bill says, <You have the amp/voltage backward, >
Yup, wouldn't be the first time I've been called backwards :-) Typo indeed.
Steve
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I would "try" if possible, to place the DC on one end or the other. I believe the flow all going one way will tend to be better. I did a VERY similar arrangement and I'm using a 1.5HP Delta(50-850) with a 20"x96" bag.
My air flow at the end of a 25' run was excellent.
I used 4" S&D pvc pipe with flex to each machine from a Y connection and a blast gate.
I have since bought a MUCH bigger 3HP 50-763 and reconfigured my entire shop. I placed ALL major tools in a "cluster" around the DC and used flex for everything.
That's a 12" cabinet saw, 15" planer, 8" jointer amd a 10" contractor saw.
The results have been VERY good at this short test period of two weeks.
You will NOT get a better result by reducing down to 2 1/4" pipe. In fact, you want to use the largest pipe practical and this is usually 6" but MANY folks get by just fine with 4" PVC.
Highspeed wrote:

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Even I wouldn't be out of breath after running 25 feet.
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