Leasing industrial space for hobby use

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Consider yourself lucky. The property tax statement I just received was equivalent to just shy of $1300/month ... that's right, over $15,000/year. Nope, it ain't even a MacMansion, it's only 2780 sf, which is less than average size around these parts.
The tax rate remains the same, but the appraisal district, appointed by the politicians, but NOT answerable to the voter, raises the appraisals unmercifully ... and the sheep never look up.
I actually took the bastards to court a few years back and spent about a year's taxes in attorney's fees trying to fight the situation as unconstitutional, but never even got a hearing before I had to quit throwing good money after bad. The (*&(*^% attorneys for each of the seven local taxing authorities took turns getting continuances ... and the judges, on the tax payroll themselves, kept granting them..IOW, it was hell, and I was the snowball. Stupid of me, thinking I could actually do something about it.
</rant> ...a Merry Christmas to you and yours, Greg.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03
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Swingman said:

Explains all the cheap houses I looked at in Houston a few years ago. Property seemed awfully inexpensive there - compared to FL & GA. HAD to be, so people could afford the taxes...?

One of the 'benefits' of living in a metro area?

I have learned, the hard way, that there is justification in the clichι, "You can't beat city hall". They are all in bed together. As one 'Judge' put it, while addressing a group of particularly nefarious lawyers, "Fellow Brothers and Sister of the Bar".

Same to you, K.C. (don't know if I'm allowed to use your real name here...)
Greg G.
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....and we thank you kindly.
Dave Hall
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Swingman wrote:

I know how you feel.
I see it as my duty to pay to educate children so it didn't use to bother me when money went to the school system. That's altruism as Wife and I have no children and never will.
However I will never vote for another school levy and will do what I can to make any levy fail.
The local school board needed both a school and stadium. Guess which they built first. Yes, a stadium. But not just a stadium, a frigging nice sports complex, almost state of the art. I've seen universities and colleges with less.
But this complex is not even theirs. They got a levy passed, bought the land and prepared it, then through some convoluted local political and business deal had the stadium built and are now leasing it.
So now their asking for more money, a huge levy to build a school. Big Boo Hoo from the board about the children being in a 40 year old building.
First, they made their decision, sports are more important than education.
Second, the lease payments. They can't make them. If these people get the levy passed no doubt where the moneys going, to the holder of the lease. The boards buddies.
To sour this a bit more, I live in an allotment that had it's own tax to pay for city water and sewer. No one else paid for this and it's been paid off. The sports complex is right up the street and when they built it they tapped into the utilities we paid to have installed.
Told you not to go here, you mention your tax statement and it opens a train of thought I rather had left closed. This thread started out about leasing space for a hobby and look where it's been hijacked to.
/vent
Sorry folks.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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Mark wrote:

Gee, sounds just like Ravenna OH.
If so, I live just down the road in Rootstown. I see you're on NEO RoadRunner. So could be, I guess. Well met!
I voted against the last school levy. (for the first time.) They're just wasting too much of their unlimited supply of (other people's) money.
John
Gotta get a T-shirt made: Where the heck is Rootstown, Ohio? Just south of Ravenna.
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John Husvar wrote:

Son of a bitch, it's a small world.
I guess I better behave with someone so close. ;}
I'm curious, at what point in my rant did you look at my address? <l>
We should meet for a Sunday breakfast at Bob's or East Park or the restaurant in the Big Bird plaza, just not this year.

As I said, I see it as a duty to help pay for children's education. And it would be damned hypocritical of me to have objections in helping pay for other peoples children's education as Wife works at KSU and in the last ten years I've earned about 100 semester hours on her tuition waver.
A line has to be drawn and the school boards need held responsible for their decisions.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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Mark wrote:

The whole story just sounded familiar since there's been mention of that fiasco in the press. Took a look at your address and, sure enough, NE Ohio.
At that point I decided to reply just on the chance you were referring to Ravenna.

Sounds good to me. We could exchange phone numbers via private email or just arrange it in email.

Exactly. School boards can't simply expect voters to continue funding them at continually increasing levels as educational attainment of the pupils continually decreasing.
Merry Holidays!
John
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Mark wrote:

The key to all real estate value is location. A location with any exposure to customer trafic will rent for considerably more than a back alley shop regardless of condition.
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
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Glenn Ashmore wrote:

Understood, Mom got her real estate license in the latter 60's and her brokers license in the earlier '70s. I haven't worked the profession but I sure as hell witnessed it.
While the 'shop' I referenced was in a decent location it was something you would find on a back alley. Uneven floors, damp, rickety doors, something from Stump Town.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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wrote:

I often rented spaces that size for band practice spaces for less than $200. <G>
It's ART, not a business! <G>
Barry
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Glenn Ashmore wrote:

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You can get insurance you just have to find the right person to sell it too you. it can be hard finding smaller places but they are out there.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
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You bet!
Right now there seems to be a glut of vacant industrial space on the market so you can pretty much find something that is tailored to your needs.
I rent a 2,000 Sq. Ft. space and I love it.
Large overhead door plus a loading dock. 200 amp 3-phase service. And now I can park in my garage again.
As for insurance: you might need liability insurance. If so, call your insurance broker and get a quote.
George.
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Oh yeah, another huge benefit for nuts like us, in a commercial property no one is going to complain if you are working at 3am and running a table saw. Well except for the guys who live in a store room someplace in one of your neighbors companies, but they aren't supposed to be there anyway :)
wrote:

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Speaking as a tenant and the owner of a small business, finding the right landlord and the right space is the hardest thing about setting up a business. In the past five years I've had two serious threats to put me out on the street, and right now I'm in a battle because the landlord's heating contractor did a bunch of unauthorized work and they're trying to stick me with the bill, plus a $35 "management fee" if you can believe it. You'll hear lots of horror stories. The bottom line is: if you hear a little voice telling you not to deal with someone - walk! And whatever you do, don't take a space on "month-to-month" if you plan on doing any major work there. Good to see Steve Knight from the "oldtools network" on the list!
regards,
Matt Turner Turner Racing Shells Ltd. www.turnershells.com
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:39:35 -0700, AL wrote

I rented a "stall" in a segmented warehouse a number of years ago It had a steel walkthrough door and a 12 foot roll up, about 800 ft^2. I had to get my own 220 power run in since it only had a single shared 110v 15A circuit which cost about $600. Rent on the space was about $200/month (no other utilities). They didn't really care what I did, just as long as rent was paid. Others had small machine shops, chile roasting/packaging, potato chip distributor, etc.
-Bruce
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It will vary a lot depending on whether you are in a small town or a large one. Most business space leases start out at about 3 years because most of the leasing companies expect to do some modifications for the tenant and want to know the tenant will be around to recoup the costs. however, there are some cases where you can get a single year lease if you look around. Single year tends to be expensive though (all commercial space tends to be overpriced in my opinion...a lot of cash for an essentially empty room). I haven't seen any "month to month" on commercial space but it may exist if you look long enough.
Most commercial space is rented on a "triple net" basis (often called NNN). This means that the tenants of the units share ALL costs for maintenance, water, outside lighting, management fees, etc. This can really add up. For example, if the landlord decides the parking lot needs re-paving or the building painting, you are stuck for you proportion of the costs (even if you don't think it needed to be done).
Currently, my 1536 square foot place costs about 1100 a month (seattle area) and the NNN is another couple of hundred a month. This may give you an idea of the costs of commercial space in a fairly large metropolitan area.
Oh yea...one of the most common lawsuits is broken business leases. Don't expect to back out of a lease early in the commercial end without getting nailed.
I would avoid true commercial space and see if there is someone willing to lease "barn" space or something similar. The other option is to shop around for someone who actually owns the space and uses most for their own business. They may have some surplus space they can rent you with fewer problems.
Koz
AL wrote:

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You won't see it in prime space, but a lot of smaller old building it is readily available. I know of some wee to week and partial month renters. Depends on location and the economy Ed
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wrote:

I've done this with many, many bands, but not woodworking. I don't see why it would be all that different with woodworking.
Tips: Talk to some commercial realtors. They often have empty space that they'll rent cheap if you'll vacate it quickly, if necessary, and not require a lease. Paying in cash can help as well. <G>
GET INSURANCE! It counts for a lot with the folks above.
Make it known that you're a hobbyist, NOT a for-profit wood shop. Underscore the artistic side of the craft, as a potter or art photographer might.
Know any other locals? Form a club and you may be able to get some space, with a decent lease, by hooking up with them.
Talk to arts groups, like local theater groups or art guilds. They often know of warehouse style space available, off the beaten path, at reasonable rates.
Woodworking is artistic. Push the artsy side over the carpentry side when dealing with realtors and landlords. This can also reinforce the not-for-profit bent of the endeavor.
Be prepared to provide some sort of non-electric, portable heater.
Barry
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I've been keeping my eyes open for a wheelchair accessible space for a number of years here in Toronto, Canada. The 'accessible part' severely limits available choices. The accessible spaces I've found are too far away for regular usage of such a space or I get the rental offer of space if they can use my tools on occasion, which immediately wants me to run and hide. I tell them if they were renting me a garage to place a car, would they expect to drive the car? That usually shuts them up, but the available space evaporates soon after that.

Pretty difficult if you have a number of woodworking machines to move on a moments notice. I went through this once and had to move everything into a 10'x10' storage facility at $100 a month. Four years later ($5000 worth) I sold or gave the tools away just to be shed of the cost.
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