Learning about my Dust Collector

Well, I did get the Jet 1100 Vortex and I like it. Much quieter than the old shop vac and doesn't use any more footprint than the SV and the Dust Deputy together. Collection bag holds plenty and is easy to take off and dump.
But.
I am a one-man, one tool at a time, shop and I just run the hose from the DC to whichever tool I'm using at the time. This sometimes requires that I neck down to a 1-1/2" hose. (track saw, router, sander) The problem with this is that this restricts the flow through the 4" hose so much that my CFM drops below what is necessary to get the sawdust to the DC. It collects in the 4" tubing. After running a job, I disconnect each segment of my hose-run starting with the tool connection, working my way back to the 4" hose. This allows the CFM to increase and sucks the sawdust on into the DC.
For now, I only have one tool, my band saw, that has a 4" port and it really does just fine on a 2" hose.
So, my 4" hose sections have gone into storage for now and I am using 2" primarily. Using the 2" straight from the DC's 4" port and then necking down to the small hose for the small-hose tools seems to work just fine.
Putting in a "system" is not in the picture at this time. It seems strange to have the Jet 1100 just using 2" hose but it seems to work just fine for me.
I ponied up for the remote control start switch as well. I keep the remote unit clipped to my apron. Very convenient.
Had a minor crisis the other day. Hit some metal in some (new) plywood I was routing and started some dust smoldering. I didn't get any of the glowing/smoldering debris into the DC but being the ex-firefighter worry-wart that I am, I emptied the DC into a metal trash can and set it out by the street for the night. Only about a 5-gal. bucket load of dust. Nothing exciting happened, no fires, etc. But can't be too careful. I am thinking about a smoke alarm for the shop (my garage) that I can activate when I go in for the night. One that I will be able to hear from inside the house. Either that or move the DC to an outside location and set up a fire sprinkler system. Did I mention that I am a worry-wart?
Ralph
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Bill Pentz, the guru of dust collection says to run the largest pipe possible as close to the machine as possible to minimize the pressure drop. You can learn much more here http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
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On 1/3/2012 11:44 PM, Ralph Compton wrote:

I use a Festool vac for portable power tools. I use the DC for all stationary tools. I have never had a problem with a 4" hose running to any stationary tool, even the router table fence". I believe the problem you are introducing is too much restriction. Try reducing "at" the tool, my 30 foot 4" hose does not get reduced until it connects to the tool. Most likely your longer narrow hose hooked up to the 4" hose is producing an interruption in air flow. A smaller restriction is ok but you need to keep it "SHORT", adapter length short at the tool.
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That's what Bill says.
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Oh, absolutely. The problem is too much restriction.
But, as I probably didn't make clear, none of my tools (including the DC) are "stationary". They all are on wheels and get rolled out and rolled back. The wife's car absolutely has to spend every night in the garage. Band saw has a 4" port. Portable table saw, portable router table, portable planer, and portable scroll saw have 2" connections. The router table actually has a restrictive fitting, the hole is only 1.25 inch but it accepts a 2" hose. My portable sliding miter saw takes a 1-1/2" connection but I am going to build a dust hood-type collector for it. And with some tools, such as track saw, router, finish sander, etc., even a 2" hose is awfully cumbersome.
Using a maximum of 20' of 2" seems to be working just fine for me. The 2" is a lot less hassle to drag from tool to tool than the 4" hose was. Also, when equally restricted, the velocity (not CFM) of the airflow through the 2" hose is greater than that in the velocity of the flow in the 4" hose. This reduces the amount of "drop out" and I get all my sawdust actually getting to the DC. For the track saw, sander, and router, a short section of 1-1/4 inch between the 2" and the tool makes the tool easier to maneuver and all the dust gets sucked up.
And, most importantly, it works. And it works better (and is much, much, quieter and convenient) than what I originally had. I am in the process of upgrading all my tool connections so that I can optimize flow while maintaining convenience. But what I have now is what I have now and is what I have to work with. I completely understand the concept of friction loss being related to flow rate and pipe size.
Previously, someone wanted to know how the Jet 1100 Vortex was working for me. That is what prompted my original post. The Jet 1100 is working just fine for me, given my particular situation. I like it. It would work even better if I had a shop where I had permanent tool installations and a rigid duct system. I'm envious of those of you that do and the book on how to design DC systems is on my want list.
Ralph

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On 1/5/2012 12:30 AM, Ralph Compton wrote:

I think I was the one that asked., I have a JEt DC and only recently have mastered changing out the bag. I do it through the top opening. With the vortex that opening is filled. I was wondering how much trouble it is to change the bottom bag. Mine uses the disposable plastic bottom bag with pleated filter on top. BTY if yours uses the clear bag, you can use the 45 gal 4 mil contractor bags too.
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I use a homemade "cyclone" consisting of a garbage can with a vortex-inducing lid. It's amazing what that does to prevent fighting the DC to empty the bag. As far as the too restricted air flow is concerned, couldn't you put a "bypass" Y in right by the tool, at the end of the 4" tubing, and put in a "gate" that you open a crack to have some extra air flow?
--
Best regards
Han
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The plastic bag system on my Jet was counter-intuitive for me at first. I expected the bag and retaining belt to go "around" rather than "inside" the housing. As it is, the bag folds over the retaining belt and then the belt, with bag, is inserted into the housing from below, and the semi-rigid belt kinda snaps into a sorta groove, holding the whole thing sturdily enough. It would be very easy to substitute the provided bag with almost any heavy-duty plastic bag but I suspect I will get LOTS of use from the provided bags. They are plenty substantial enough for my use.
As for the filter assembly. I haven't generated enough dust yet to have given it a fair try. I don't get any significant droppings into the bag when I operate the cleaning mechanism. Means most of what I suck up goes through the Vortex down into the bag.
IF I were generating a lot of sawdust, I might consider some sort of system where I eliminate the bag in favor of a rigid barrel, which I could more easily pull off and dump as needed.
And, if I had the luxury of putting my DC outside, along the garage, downwind, I think a cloth filter bag would have been fine.
Yesterday I was putting a rabbet edge on some panels for a garage cabinet I am building for a friend. The weather was nice so I just moved the tablesaw out onto the driveway to use as a bench and let the wind carry my dust onto the lawn for some light mulching.
Just for the experiment, I needed to empty my shredder the other day so I took it into the garage and used the DC to empty it. All the shredded paper went right on into the bag, leaving me with a nice and clean shredder hopper.
I completely agree with having a trash-can cyclone, especially with regards to saving the blades on the DC impeller. I intend to get one. For now I am cautious about what I suck up. No nuts, bolts, nails, chunks of wood, plastic bags, etc. My optimum system would including mounting the DC in a shed alongside the garage and a trash can cyclone just inside. I was always impressed what my Dust Deputy did with regards to keeping junk out of my shop vac.
Once I finally get organized, things will improve.
Regards, Ralph

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On 1/5/2012 11:41 AM, Ralph Compton wrote:

I am a visual Kinda person and depend on seeing what is going on when replacing the bag. LOL. The bags that come with collector are substantial but once you drag it out of the DC a time or two with all that weight you will find that they tend to be too much trouble to reuse and IMHO not worth the dust cloud produced when you empty it. For me, once it is in the bag it stays there.

Hummmmmm that will not take up much room in the DC at all...

My DC is about 6 years old now and I try not to suck up large chunks of wood but my impeller is steel and it has been hit countless times by marble sized chunks of wood, no noticeable damage. Be ware of sucking up a rag or steal woo, they will for sure throw off the balance of the impeller and you will have to dig it out of every crack.

Enjoy the clean shop!
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On 1/5/2012 12:41 PM, Ralph Compton wrote:

I use standard 45 or 90 PVC fittings inside the pre-collection drum to spin the air around the outside of the drum with the hose from the DC connected to the middle of the lid of the drum. Nothing other than some fine powder gets to the DC. As you have said, when the air goes from a small hose to a large hose, the air expands, velocity drops and heavy stuff falls out. When the air goes from a 2-4" pipe to a 24" pipe (drum) all the heavy stuff falls out. If the air is spinning around the outside of the drum via PVC connectors, just about everything other than some fine powder drops out. No need to spend money on a cyclone that does the same thing.

I was always impressed what my Dust Deputy did with

--
Jack
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When I got my large Delta DC, it has those goofy bag rings inside and I hated them.
I called Delta and they sent me a metal strap those goes around the outside.
I hold my plastic bags with small rare earth magnets and then slip the metal strap on with no problems.
What I plan to do at some point is to add a metal cyclone to my system and eliminate changing the lower bags.
Check these out... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Separator-Dust-Collector-/270423194251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ef67a7a8b
On 1/5/2012 4:20 AM, Leon wrote:

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*snip*

Maybe you could get two fire alarms that are linked together. If one goes off, so would the other. I did this with a doorbell and it usually works (the doorbell button transmitter doesn't always send a strong signal.)
You need a CO alarm if you've got anything other than electric heat. The alarm going off might be the first sign of something wrong.
Puckdroppper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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