So this job went pretty quick. These garage cabinets are 182" wide and the tall cabinet is 92" tall. Short cabs are 30" tall. These are reconstructed in the usual manner that I do, front and back face frames all floating tenon joints for the face frames and fitted to the panels with grooves. I leveled a 10' piece of 1x3 soft maple to use as a ledger to set the short cabinets on while I anchored all cabinets to the wall with 1/4" x
3.5" SPAX lad screws. No surprises and fortunately the wall was plumb, although not flat.
LOL... No the cabinets are high so that the customer could park his truck in the garage and make full use of the length of the garage for that purpose. What is funny is that he traded his 2 year old F150 for a new F250. after I started the project 3 weeks ago. The new truck is too long to fit inside the garage, cabinets or no cabinets.
No problem ... can get a beam/header in the space without even taking your upper cabinets out, but the "bump out" in the living room will look kinda funny. ;)
Wonder if that guy will ever fully appreciate how much of a favor you did him by incorporating the center supports for the adjustable shelves?
Great looking job!, Next thing will be a workbench and drawers since his new truck won't fit. ;)
Is the large cabinet floating off the floor? Thank you for showing the pics. And I am very glad it isn't me that is painting the cabinets after installation.!!
I'm curious, do the floating tenon's get in the way, or too close to the grooves, or do you place small ones in a clear space, or?
Thank you. Actually I have to go back next month and put in a 15'x 3' single level storage shelf in his garage bump out. It will be approximately 6.5' from the floor and mostly 2x4 and plywood construction.
No. It actually has a 2x3 base located inside the bottom but extends about 1/2" out of the bottom. Mounted to the 2x3 base frame are 4 adjustable screw feet that are adjustable through the bottom of that cabinet. I needed to have some wiggle room so that the tops of all of the cabinets would need to be in alignment. I/we hung the smaller cabinets first and I adjusted the tall cabinet accordingly. This also prevents any water from wicking into the bottoms of the MDO sides should there ever be a moisture problem with the concrete floor.
You are welcome!
And I am very glad it isn't me that is
Me 2!
With the Domino I can precicely place the mortices to receive the tenons. The rails are wide enough that I could put 2 floating Domino tenons side by side about 3/4" apart away from the grove.
Looking at the bottom right corner of this FF there is about 2-3/4" of wood below the grove. that is where the tenons are
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But that brings up a good point. When I build back face frames to receive backs I use lap joints and Floating tenons. I have to watch out to miss the groves and to miss the lap joint tenons.
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The above examples form this back FF joint.
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All lap joints and floating tenons for this back FF.
Wouldn't this also be a good idea for kitchen cabinets setting on a concrete slab? If so, then would quarter round molding or similar be used to cover the floor gap?
Well Leon, this is all impressive and somewhat intimidating seeing the various joints, knowing that they aren't just something thrown together at the last minute. Between you and Karl, there is a ton of stuff to see and learn.
These lapped, mortise and grove joints look like they would last through an earthquake while the entire house falls apart.
I also took the time to look at some of your picture links showing some cabinet doors to a project you did in 2013, It was really difficult, or should I say impossible to see your joints and if it wasn't for seeing a couple panels in clamps I couldn't even guess where they were joined. They looked like one solid slab of wood.
I looked at some door pricing, per Karl's suggestion, and,...well...I am glad I am retired so that I will have time to learn and build.
Since everything is going to be painted, would it be wise to use MDF for the door panels, and shape those for a raised, arch panel? With fresh router bits and a leisurely pace should it be doable, or should I follow another path?
I think I am going to make a router jig for the mortise's on the stiles, and give that a try. Somehow, with biscuits it seems that the joint would be weak due to the flimsy nature of the biscuits, while dowels use hard wood or am I missing something.
I've been wanting to reply to this for a while, but had too much going on. Thank you Leon for all your advice here and the pictures that support it.
Absolutely, and how Swingman and I have built some of the Kitchens that we have worked together on in the past. BUT we used shims to level the base IIRC. Using adjustable feet is an elegant but more expensive way to eliminate shimming. The 2x4's can be covered with kick plate molding and or a matching hardwood and quarter round. The 2x4 would not be very pretty to look at. ;!)
I have posted my latest cabinet job, that makes 47 that I have built this way. It is really pretty simple, now. LOL. All I can say is that having all joints, except the FF rail and stile joints, fit together with dad0's and groves leaves no room for error. If something is not right the cabinet simply will not go together at all. That is some what intimidating considering you don't really find out until the final glue of of the panels pieces and FF's. But 47 cabinets later that has not yet happened. Good and accurate drawings and double checking cuts is an absolute necessity. Quality of materials plays an important role also. If the plywood panels are warped they work gainst yo when fitting them into dado's and groves. The MDO is pleasantly flat so it was/is a joy to work with.
I hope so. I tell my customers that their grand children will inherit the furniture.
Was that the walnut doors?
The big thing to remember when building doors is to use flat and straight stick, and cut all same length pieces at the same time. Any deviation in the lengths of rails and stiles makes joints difficult to assemble.
If I were only going to use "plain" flat panel doors, I would go with the water resistant MDF. If you are going to introduce arches and or floating panels I personally would go with solid wood rails and stiles and a plywood floating panel or solid wood raised panel center panel. The surface of MDF is pretty good to receive paint. If you use a router bit to introduce a decorative cut below the outer surface of the MDF you get into the softer section of the panel. That requires more fineness than I have to paint and appear/feel smooth. Perhaps priming with something to seal and sand before painting might be the ticket.
You might want to get some input from Nailshooter on how to go after that.
This joint is very easy to produce and strong, I have never had one fail. I cut the groves to receive the panel with a flat grind/rip TS blade to produce a flat bottom and cut the tenons on the ends of the rails to fit those groves with a stacked dado set.
Again consistent thickness and exact length on rails and stiles is paramount ins a good fitting joint.
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You are very welcome, it is people like you that appreciate the details and make comments that make it worth while.
Something I meant to say. If you use solid wood panels, they need to be floating and they need to be narrower than the width between the bottoms of the groves that they fit in. Wide glued up solid wood panels will swell and shrink and can literally break a door if there is not room allowed for the panel expansion.
So prefinishing/painting the center panel is necessary so that when it shrinks it does not reveal unfinished wood.
A product called "space balls" are good to use in the groves to keep the panels centered. the space palls will compress and expand as the panel changes shape with climate changes.
The two most important parameters for designing and installing base cabinets:
Protection against leaks and/or wicking.
The height of "finished floor" (FF) with regard to desired counter top height.
If you're redoing the cabinets and a toe kick is not built in, and they must sit on a concrete slab, use a base of PT material, made of plywood or lumber (with sides tall enough to take into account future, installed flooring).
Although not a kitchen, the idea, illustrated here, is the same:
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(an added advantage is that you level the "base", and not individual cabinets)
If the toe kick is built-in and must be installed on concrete: design the toe kick height to accommodate future FF; and use a moisture barrier ... or better yet (and particularly if they are purchased cabinets), install the new cabinets on top of the new flooring.
The idea of both parameters above is to prevent rot, from wicking and leaks, but also to preclude future problems with installing appliances like dishwasher, ice machines, and refrigerators after installation of new and future flooring.
(not uncommon to see new tile laid on top of old floors)
Keep in mind the standard height of a kitchen base cabinet (without counter top) should be 34 1/2" above finished floor (FF).
This gives you clearance for industry standard appliances; plus 1 1/2" for substrate and counter top (total = 36" above FF); which insures clearance for drawers, doors and appliances.
To do that, you need to plan for existing, and future, FF height in your cabinet design.
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