Kitchen door panel inserts rattle

One more post on this huge project (for me).
I'm refacing my kitchen cabinets (28 doors worth). I've made new doors and face frames out of red oak. It looks fantastic! People on this message board have already helped me with tons of ideas and suggestions. The best of all is the suggestion to buy the Kreg pocket hole system. Wow. I've used about 400 screws already and I can't imaging doing that much joining if I had to clamp everything and wait for it to dry. What a great timesaver!
Anyway, here's my question for now:
I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Here's some things I've tried already: I tried gluing in the panel during assembly but they seem to break free of the wood glue. Also, the glue tended to 'seep' out of the slot on some and created a mess so I stopped using it. I looked to 'tuck' something soft into the gap but the gap isn't very wide. I'm thinking that clear silicone caulk that remains soft may be the answer but I'm at a loss as to how to go about getting it into the tiny slot. Rockler has something I probably should have used but didn't know about at the time. They're called rubber space balls and I guess you drop a few into the slots before putting the panel in and they compress. Oh well. I know you guys will have an easy answer to this.
Thanks in advance. If anyone wants to see before and after shots, I'll be happy to provide.
By the way, if anyone's interested, I decided to use the Minwax "Wipe- on" polyurethane. All I can say is it was much easier to use than brushing on. As an amature, I think the finished product looks much better and easier. I know a lot of you guys probably spray the finish but I don't have the equipment or the space to do it.
Finally, best tools I bought for the project: Kreg pocket hole system - by far the best $100 I've spent in a long time. Porter Cable 1/4" staple (air powered). All I had was a brad nailer that was punching through all the thin material. The staple gun is extremely handy for only $100.
I already have a Grizzly table saw and a Dewalt 12" miter saw.
The reason I'm saying all this is because if anyone is thinking of doing a kitchen refacing project themselves but are a little nervous...it can be done. The most difficult part is starting. Also, find a good lumber yard instead of Lowes or Home Depot for your hardwood.
Thanks again! Now, how do I stop the darn rattling??? :)
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space balls

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Good suggestion prior to assembly. Now he needs to shim or add a drop of glue here and there on the back side.
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I wonder if a little Gorilla glue might work, in dabs spread around the back of the panel? I know the foaming action as it cures is not structurally strong, but it does expand, and maybe it would keep the panel from rattling. The dried foam isn't too hard to scrape off. Andy
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That might work out OK providing the tight spots are easy to get into.
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...........................
During assembly I've used either of two methods. One, the space balls. I've only built a few items with them but they do seem to work. Trouble with them is, if you are installing them in a groove larger than 1/4" (which you're not), it can sometimes be problematic to keep them in place while assembling. Two, I've used clear silicone caulk and just laid out beads on a piece of waxed paper. Once dry, I have just set them into the groove. That has worked well for me but kind of messy and time consuming, hence I've tried the space balls. Since your doors are already built, I'm not sure how you're going to get something down inside that groove. There are syringe type glue dispensers available but trying to push silicone through them might not be an option (I've used them with epoxy but for only a very small amount and it worked, but not great). If everything is screwed together and not glued, you might consider disassembling and going with the silicone/space ball route and then reassembling. I'm sure someone will come along with a better idea! Cheers, cc
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I'm afraid it's a little late to help you on this project, but it may help next time. Instead of using undersized 1/4" panels use 3/8" panels and run dados on the four sides of the panels to the exact width of the groove in the stiles and rails. I think Norm showed this technique on a recent show. It will produce a much sturdier door. Joe G
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wklkj wrote:
| I've made the cabinet doors out of a solid oak frame and a 1/4" oak | plywood insert. The plywood is a little under a 1/4" and as you've | already guessed, they rattle when I close the doors on the self | closing hinges. It's a terrible noise. Any suggestions on how to | fix this?
If the doors are already glued, I'd be tempted to drill 1/16" holes from the back into the bottom of the grooves holding the plywood panels and use a caulking gun to shoot a very small amount (not enough to be visible at the top of the groove) of clear silicone caulk into the groove.
I'd cut the caulk cartridge tip so that the opening is only a 1/16" and do immediate clean-up with solvent.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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This might work, and a Glue Syringe might be a better choice. Most come with 3-4 different needles and the larger ones should work with silicone. Just squirt the goo into the syringe from the tube and be careful not to squeeze out around the panels. The resulting holes won't be any bigger than a finish nail.
RonB
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Thin shims that will slide in on the back side with a little glue to hold them in place. They should be narrow enough that they disappear when you slide them in. Usually a few inches long, and less than 1/2" wide.
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Yeah - This is probably a better way than Silicone. Every time I open a tube of the stuff I end up with it in my whiskers and everyplace.
RonB

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Bad web site... Good products...
http://www.fastcap.com /
Space Balls...
wklkj wrote:

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Pat, how do you put the space balls in finished doors? ;~)
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:01:39 GMT, "Leon"

Not being Pat, how about drilling holes inserting them and plugging the holes. I am truly not being a smart ass, but would be a PITA to do.
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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That would work, but probably not very well as you would need to know exactly where the gap between the panel and the bottoms of the slots are to drill in the correct location.
Before assembly the Space Balls are great. They are helpful in preventing rattles and help to keep a raised panel centered.
And I was ribbing Pat. ;~)
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I didn't notice the word "finished".... oops
NO SPACE BALLS for you... get the shims out.
Leon wrote:

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See if there is a silicone product with a small pointed nozzle. Force a small dab into the crack.
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The auto parts stores sell tubes of Windshield Gasket Repair silicone. This stuff is clear and thinner than the silicone that is readily available. Lay the door face down on the bench and squeeze a small dab of this into the crack between the panel and rail in several places around the frame. The small nozzle on the tube should allow you get the silicone into the crack quite easily as it is intended for sealing between the rubber window gasket and the glass of a car windshield. Paint thinner on a rag should help you clean up any excess that you get on the door. Let it dry overnight before you stand the door up or it may run out of the crack (like I said - it's thinner than the normally found silicone).
--
Charley


"wklkj" < snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
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I think adding silicon or the like to the backs fo the panels is going to be the easiest solution, but you will still see a small gap between the door frames and the panels when you open the door. If you're okay with this, then I think the best solution is to try what others have suggested and find a way to either dab some silicon or slip in some very small shims.
But, for another suggestion, what I like to do on door panels is to put quarter-round molding around the inside of the panels. This adds a very nice touch, snugs up the panels and hides any gap between the panel and the door frames. Typically, the quarter-round is 1/16" less than the distance between the panel and the edge of the door. If your doors are 3/4" thick, then you'd make the quarter-round 3/16". Make sense?
Since your doors are already finished, applying the moulding will be an issue. Perhaps you could use a cabinet scraper to remove the finish from the exposed edges of the door frame. Not the panel though because you don't want the moulding to get glued to the panels. That would be bad when the panels shrink/expand from humidity changes.
This solution would be a bit of work, but would look the best IMO when done. But like I said in the beginning, the silicon slution is probably the easiest.
Mike Dembroge Dembroge Woodworks
[snip]
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be
find
Silicon comes in different colours, with a little colour matching, there really shouldn't be much space filling to notice.
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