Kitchen Cabinets - Toe Kick or No Toe Kick

[Glen Duff]

I am starting on a major kitchen cabinet project for our old, stone house and we want to have all the modern conveniences but want it to look traditional, country-style. One of the looks we are seriously considering includes a furniture-type base board on the cabinets without a toe-kick.

I know the idea of a toe-kick is to improve the comfort for those working in the kitchen, especially the lower back but I'm not really convinced one way or the other.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Any references would be helpful as well. Thanks in advance.

Glen Duff

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Easy to decide. Go stand at the kitchen sink for a few minutes. Rinse some dishes, wipe out the sink, then look where your eet are. If you are standing close and your feet are under the lip, it shows you need a toe kick. Without it, you end up with back problems.

You could try laying a 2 x 4 on the floor to block the openings of hte toe kick. See how many times you kick it when trying to reak for something in the upper cabinet. See how much you strain your back because you are standing out a few more inches.

If looks are more important than your health, go for the looks. If you value you lower back, go for the toe kick.

[Tom Watson]

What I like to do is use a furniture base, with an arched cutout to provide a toe space. This gives the look of the furniture base, while maintaining the functionality of the toe kick.

Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website:

[Unisaw A100]

Along the same lines, I'm currently working with an English (UKer) arch-ee-tekt and his "scheme" is to have some more traditional looking casework fronts in the kitchen, larder (pantry Tom) and butler's pantry. To achieve this we're making face frame fronts and applying them to our "normal" Euro constructed cabinets. The stiles on the face frames run to the floor and are filled in to give a very solid looking appearance.

Also, on the kitchen island we're setting the toe boards back 8"-12" to give the appearance of freestanding units.

Also, it doesn't hurt to have the cabinets at different depths with the work tops following suit (suite Luigi). It give the appearance of furniture collected together and used for the kitchen cabinets.

UA100

[ToolMiser]

How will you keep it clean with the cutout as you describe? At least wtih furniture, you can move it around the take care of it. Just my thought!

[Tom Watson]

There's a regular toe kick behind the overlay.

Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website:

[Doug Miller]

What Ed said. You don't cook, do you, Glen? I know Ed does; I've seen his posts before in some of the cooking groups.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

[Bay Area Dave]

it's really easy to figure: if you and the missus are toeless, go without the toe-kick. Otherwise...

dave

Glen Duff wrote:

[SwampBug]

Otherwise extended the counter top out. . .

-- SwampBug

- - - - - - - - - - - -

[Leon]

If it looks nice but you don't use it or hate to use it what good is a nice looking "What ever"? With the design of your new cabinets, start with some kind of toe kick or recess area for your feet. Otherwise you will stand back in a year and wonder how you could have put so little consideration in to the toe kick.

[Bridger]

a deep overhang can make up for no toe kick, but it makes it hard to use the full depth of the top drawers.

[George Berlinger]

I,m for the toe-kick.....hate stubbing my toes if i,m not wearing shoes......

[Bay Area Dave]

good point, I try to overhang counters just enough to keep drips from running down the cabinet fronts.

dave

Bridger wrote:

[SwampBug]

Of course, if you use words like "deep" overhang. One could, if you want to make it look like furniture, lower the drawers a bit in the carcass and use a sort of "crown molding from the top to the drawer opening. We ARE talking doing something different here, why limit it during the idea phase?

-- SwampBug

- - - - - - - - - - - -

[SwampBug]

You can also over extend the drawers. There is nothing cast in stone here save maybe tradition. You could design the top drawer wedge shaped and pivot out to clear the overhang, exercise imagination and see where it goes. Lets have a real, std rule, brainstorming to revolutionize the base cabinet industry.

-- SwampBug

- - - - - - - - - - - -

[Swingman]

When designing our latest kitchen, we gave the 'no toe kick look' due consideration because SWMBO brought it up, but after weighing all the factors, we went with the traditional toe kick space.

Obviously a solid base board, or any type of furniture trim on a base cabinet, will push you even back further from the cabinets without some type of cutout or cutout pattern.

I did see some nice looking units in the "French Provincial" style that had the appearance of no toe kick space, said toe kick space hidden behind the cutout pattern of a base board, with room for your toes.

The biggest consideration against 'no toe kick' for us was (and we saw plenty of evidence of this in use) that the base boards generally get banged/smudged up over time, with the curved area, or projections, closed to the floor getting the majority of the grief from shoes, accidental kicks, mops and vacuums.

[Bay Area Dave]

thanks, I'll stick with the full extension plus 1" drawer slides.

dave

SwampBug wrote:

[Silvan]

If your eet are under something while you reak for something, you need to lay off the booze and get out of the kitchen before you burn yourself. ;)

[Jon Endres, PE]

Glen,

If you spend any time at all in the kitchen, then you need a toe kick. Specifically at the sink, and where there are upper cabinets. In other areas, a toe kick may not be necessary. Your back will quickly tell you how necessary a toe kick is.

I'd like to do without one in my new kitchen as well, but it's a necessity. What I am going to do is build the cabinets as modules, and build the toe kick as part of a platform that the cabinet boxes will sit on. That way, you can build the platform as essentially a frame made of 2x4 stock, shim that to square and level instead of each individual cabinet, and then attach the cabinets to the base separately. You could even attach the facing for the toe kick before you put the cabinets on, which makes it easier. The other nice thing about that method is that you don't have to stick to stock sizes of cabinets - you can build something to fit your space.

Jon E

[Jon Endres, PE]

General question - how would one adapt this methid of installation to a Shaker style cabinet (assuming someone reading this has experience with Shaker furniture)?

Jon E