Kiln drying STEEL?

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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:08:28 -0400, "J. Clarke"

suave stuff!
what aerofoil family(s) did you use? what limiting tip speed did you work to?
this area of aviation seems to one of the least publicly documented areas and yet it is one of the most important.
Stealth Pilot
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Stealth Pilot wrote:

I've long since forgotten--I seem to recall that they were from a family developed specifically for propeller use. Wasn't something I normally had to deal with.

Not a number I ever carried in my head. The only one that sticks is 1050 RPM as the governed RPM for the 54H60 (note--adjusting the RPM on that prop was a maintenance item, not a cockpit control). You can work from that to the tip speed.
Of course Hamilton built supersonic props but I don't know for sure that they ever flew--the one on the XF-84H doesn't look like the drawings and components I saw (_really_ wish I could have taken pictures in the shop, but cameras other than in the hands of the official photographer were strictly forbidden, there was all sorts of historically interesting stuff racked in odd corners which has probably been lost now), which suggests that it was the Curtiss design--the project was supposed to test several prop variants but the airframe proved to be unsatisfactory for the purpose and rather than fix it the project was cancelled. Never encountered anybody who was willing to talk about it.

Somebody really needs to write a history of the aircraft propeller before it's lost.
--
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--John
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:39:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"

a very good point. what are you doing later this week? :-) it would make a very good retirement project.
...go on give it a go.
Stealth (seriously) Pilot
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Stealth Pilot wrote:

If I thought there was a real chance that I was ever going to retire that would be a fine idea.
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--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

That would be interesting.
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Stealth Pilot wrote:

I've seen lots of polished spinners, but no polished props.
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Jay, There is also another option, which may also be possible in your area. Not only can you hot dip in molten zinc, you can sandblast and metal spray with zinc. It is not as robust as hot dip, but allows the piece to be then powder coated in any color of your choice. Of course you can can also powder coat after hot dip as well. You will find that all 3 processes are very inexpensive and compete cost wise with quality paint, when all material and labor costs are included. Steve
wrote:

Could we fabricate the whole chair or table, then take it someplace to be dipped? Or do we have to assemble it from pre-dipped steel - in which case I gather we'd have rusting issues at the welded joints, right?
I can't wait to unload a ration of crap....errr...."inform the metalworkers" on Monday!
Thanks all.
JP *********************************** Just scorping the seats.
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wrote:

Hell.. Do a flashback and have it chromed.. lol
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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Here's a worst-case example: lots of thin strip, hot-dipped afterwards. 50 (minimum charge) to do a couple of them (or a few more)
http://jarkman.co.uk/catalog/furnitur/suchair.htm
You can't chrome plate over zinc though
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"Jay Pique" wrote
Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers <grumble>.
**********************
My comments on working with metal.
Hot rolled steel is a lower quality steel and it will rust in a second. Particularly if you weld it. Cold rolled steel is smoother and does not rust as easily. If I absolutely did not want it to rust, I wirebrushed it with an angle grinder and immediately primered it. You can get primers for both clean metal and rusty metal.
Steel tends to rust if heated anyway. One secret to a good paint job is similar to applying any kind of finish on any kind of surface. That is to make the surface absolutely clean and bare. And if it sits for a day or two, it will not be clean and pristine anymore.
I used at least two angle grinders with wire brushes on them. I then used a hand wire brush. I then used some emory cloth. Then I got the primer on it.
I used to make gym equipment. I was always being offered hot rolled round stock for cheap. The cold rolled stuff was at least half again as much and in some diameters, twice as much. The hot rolled crap would pit, rust and generally degrade before your eyes.
Any piece that went out with hot rolled stock came back and had to be replaced. Other shops actually gave me a bunch of the hot rolled stock. I used it to build jigs, etc. I never used it personally in any of the good stuff I built.
One good reason to make good welds is that there isn't any pits or cracks for the rust to grow in. Which is why all welds were ground if necessary. There is little need to grind a good weld. And the rust starts growing right next to the weld where the steel was heated.
Rust is the enemy of any metal piece that must be smooth and/or must look good. Enough care in building it and a good clean up before painting helps a lot.
HTH
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Jay Pique wrote:

Clean 'em, polish 'em, gold-plate 'em. Apply a heavy coat of epoxy paint to protect the gold. :-)
Suggest they use stainless for the next set.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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Jay Pique wrote:

To how to keep it from rusting, Rust-Oleum works quite well. If you want something better, any automotive paint shop should have a wide range of systems intended specifically to work on steel and can match just about any color. Or you could go with the full MIL-SPEC system with MIL-T-8514 etch, MIL-P-23377 epoxy primer, and a MIL-PRF-85285 topcoat. If it has to have a metallic appearance then paint it with a metallic paint.
If it is _all_ steel with no plastic or wooden or other parts, or if it can be dissasembled and all the non-steel parts removed, and if you can find a plating shop with a tank set up that is big enough to hold it then you could have the whole thing chromed (or plated with another metal of your choice, but don't count on anything but chrome being available without a significant set-up charge). This is going to be an expensive option, but will leave you with a durable shiny metal surface.
Oh, and if the "metalworker" is one of your employees, you need to have a long talk with that boy.
--
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--John
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On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:08:39 +0100, Jay Pique wrote (in article

Simple. Galvanize it. (or hot-dip it in zinc )
Powder coat? Red lead paint? I presume, however, that we want a "bare metal" industrial look to this otherwise we'd not be doing this kiln-drying and furniture polish thing? so galvanizing it is.
Or nickel plate if it's a smooth polished look that's wanted- don't forget to specify over copper plate though else it'll get woodworm...
Or keep it in a pure nitrogen environment if that's simpler, 'cos rust is caused by phlogiston escaping into impure atmospheres and contamination from bodily fluids umm..
Remake everything in stainless steel?
Alumininuminum?
Wood?
meanwhile - beeswax? really? Where did these guys go to school? Oh......
I'll get me coat.
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Lacquer.
On Sep 19, 9:23 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:

Now that's interesting. The whole story is this. One of our guys and a metalworker built a table for a client. It's made from pieces of hot-rolled steel that had further been cold bent into curves. They welded together the parts, sanded it and then applied a coat of beeswax. And it rusted. So now the metalworker thinks that if he heats the steel really well it will evaporate trapped moisture and then they'll seal it out with beeswax. (I know, I know....) In any event, since it sounds like it's not moisture they're burning off anyhow, the whole question of whether a kiln would work is pretty much moot. (Obviously wouldn't be hot enough to burn off oil, either.)
Now for the real question - how do we prevent this table and chairs from rusting? Not much response from the metalworkers <grumble>.
JP
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<...snipped...>

For ordinary hotrolled mild steel? The traditional solution is paint. If you want the bare steel look I suppose you could use varnish or laquer.
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
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