Just Three

"I probably would buy a shaper before a planer, but you can get by with a router. I have a shaper which is is a lot better than a router table but more expensive as well."

A lot of people mention a planer in the top 3, but I sure don't get it unless you have a lumber mill and make your own lumber.

Also, shaper would be one of the last large tools I'd buy since you can get by with a router and a table saw with a molding cutter. I will say I'm a little intrigued by all the effort and money put into buying huge expensive routers and lift mechanisms just to stick them in fancy tables pretending they are shapers. Might as well buy a shaper and be done with it.

Reply to
Jack Stein
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Jack Stein wrote:

Hi, Jack... Can't quite tell if you're for or against the shaper...I guess it is like this...once you've had a good table saw, it is hard to go back to cutting your stock with a skilsaw. When I was younger, I had a router for everything and knew all the tricks, but after I became familiar with shaper work, the router lost most of it's status in the woodwork I could do...proving that sometimes the previous technologies derived in the era of industrial revolution cannot be beat by the newer technology...And I am a believer in technology. When I was seventeen, working in a union store fixture manufacturer's shop, the router was a little known and little used piece of technology that had been around for about thirty years, but had not progressed beyond the point of a half-dozen steel bits and could hardly be used for anything...mostly for the 'new' laminate work...there were only a dozen colors of plastic laminate then...by the mid-seventies router work had become a revolution in woodwork and I was a major proponent of the technology. I still use a router everyday...but I can do so much more with the shaper, that I would give up my router first, before I would ever give up my shaper. As far as the plane is concerned, I have the same opinion...I cannot live without it. Being able to size multiple pieces of stock cleanly on four sides is usually the first and most critical stage of engineering a project. With those three machines and a box of handtools, I can build most any wood project.

Reply to
DAClark

Disagree with your suggesting that a beginner should start with a shaper. I would suggest just a table saw, maybe a band saw, and a lunchbox planer for a beginner.

I make my living in woodworking and have 4 shapers and never owned a router table, except that I mounted router bases underneath the left table winges since '84 for detail cuts and some grooves and dados.

have a good day, woodstuff

Reply to
woodstuff

What do you want to make to start out?

- Band saws aren't as useful for plywood cabinets as they might be for fine furniture.

- Jointers and planers don't do well with plywood and MDF.

- Some fine furniture makes forgo a table saw, but live and die with a band saw, jointer, and planer.

- Some guys don't use power tools at all, and still work pretty quickly. Check this out:

- Some folks have good access to good quality s4s lumber, and joint well-enough using a router or a table saw.

For most woodworkers planning to use power tools, a table saw is a necessity, and a good all-around first purchase. Don't scrimp here, a good contractor's saw might be the only table saw you'll ever need.

From there, we need to think about the question at the beginning...

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Reply to
B A R R Y

I don't disagree with you, if it is a safety issue you refer to...but the question was about equipment, not the qualification of the operator. The operation of the shaper is a learning process that hasn't published much in the way of valid procedural literature in the last thirty or forty years, so a beginner would want to research the subject and seek experienced advice. Shaper works have been displaced by other technologies, both machine and value-added materials...but the best way to shape wood for structure and aesthetics is the shaper. If you want to build serious cabinet and furniture projects, you have to have a shaper, otherwise you are just faking it. And why fake it, if you can do it right from the beginning...? And properly operated, the shaper is infinitely safer than the router.

Reply to
DAClark

I guess it doesn't matter either way. Since the original poster didn't state their intentions about what they wanted to do, I assumed that they were going to build birdhouses and paper weights, maybe some front-yard cutouts painted with Christmas stuff. Who knows?

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I agree about the router table and bits costing more and doing less, but I have been unable in the past to explain the difference to some who listen to the idiots at woodcraft and look at me like I have 3 eyes...

Have a good day, woodstuff

Reply to
woodstuff

No votes for the Festool Domino?!

JP

Reply to
Jay Pique

I vote for the Domino thang, but just can't afford it right now: I'm doing pocket screws and biscuits. When my ship comes in...

have a good day, woodstuff

Reply to
woodstuff

That joke is on me, cause I have no idea what the festool domino is... But I can fully engineer wood for any structure without pocket screws or biscuits on the shaper. Any project, large or small, is the result of engineered parts...relying upon auxiliary fasteners only promotes the weakening of that structure by negating proper wood engineering.

Reply to
DAClark

What you say is true and correct. I am also sure that you do outstanding work, and maybe prettier than mine as well as more sound. I am also sure that you have done things that I haven't and know things I don't know.

The problem for me with doing other types of joinery is that it takes more time than I have, especially the construction of face frames and attaching them to the cabinet body. I just don't have time to do a mortise and tenon on such a volume.

When I do a furniture piece, I do better. I hope to reform myself soon. :-)

have a good day, woodstuff

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Reply to
woodstuff

How do you attach table tops to the apron? JP

Reply to
Jay Pique

Ouch... I wasn't trying to put anyone's work down, or set up any pissing matches...I was arguing in favor of the shaper for its woodworking purposes. I do believe that this particular machine tool has lost a great deal of the understanding that it once enjoyed. I have been in many shops that didn't even have one, and others, where they had the machine but didn't use it...I think fear is the shaper's greatest adversary. There is a learning curve...and improperly operated, the machine could eat your hand...but I know of no such accident. I do know the results are worth the effort of learning to use it. And if you are serious about your woodworking, you have to...

Reply to
DAClark

Just finished doing 35 feet of molding with a molding head on the RAS. I'm ready for a real shaper. The molding head works, but there is a lot of unpleasant splintering, and it's hard to hand feed the work slow enough to keep the cut smooth. But, to be real about it, I don't do all that many moldings, the molding head does work, abet crudely, and I don't really have either the money or the floor space for a shaper.

David Starr

Reply to
David Starr

If you're not running a commercial molding shop a good router in a table should do fine. Last time I was in Woodcraft they had 3-1/2 HP Freuds on sale for a ridiculously low price. One of those in a table will make molding in small volume just fine.

Reply to
J. Clarke

Lots of shaper tasks have been co-opted by better router tables.

A big shaper can't be beat for handrails, entry doors, or all-day stile and rail milling. A buddy of mine has a cheaper 1 HP shaper that really doesn't have much to offer over a good router table, along with several negatives, including cutter cost.

I would never recommend a shaper to a newbie as an early tool. A newbie that wants to use power tools WILL need a router, so that moves a shaper way down the list.

Reply to
B A R R Y

Pocket screws work well for me, but I am sure that there are better ways.

Have a good day, woodstuff

Reply to
woodstuff

For solid wood tops, I like shop-made wooden blocks that mate with grooves in the back of the apron, or metal "zee" fasteners in similar apron grooves.

Plywood or composite tops can be screwed dead tight with pocket screws or corner blocks, as they won't move.

Reply to
B A R R Y

I disagree that there are better router tables...the very best of router tables is just a light weight shaper, but without the adjustability of the shaper and that 1hp shaper makes a very functional router table utilizing a router bit collet. As far as cutter cost, per production foot, you'll burn up a dozen router bits before your shaper cutter even needs sharpening. So economically, the shaper cutters are less expensive...the larger diameters make cleaner cuts...and eases the entrance of the wood into the cut...much safer. Another thing is understanding the full potential of the shaper...each cut is a joining action...so you straighten at the same time. I pass each piece twice or three times at 1/32...the first pass is a hogging cut...the second is a finish cut...and the third or even a fourth is on an as needed basis. I can joint a whole pile of lumber quicker on the shaper than a joiner...the material lays flat...and you can read the cut. With rub collars and pins, I can free hand most shapes... Putting three of four or more boards together for a panel is a snap...with a choice of interlocking shapes...corners, no problem. What I am trying to impart, here, is the potential for working wood is far greater with the shaper...than current thinking is willing to allow...

Reply to
DAClark

There's no adjustment on the 1 HP shaper that isn't on my shop-made table. My table is heavy, as it's all MDF and ash.

It's too slow for anything except panel raisers. I've tried it, and so has the owner. With beading bits, chamfers, flutes, etc... It's sloooooow!

That's excellent, if you make 100's of the same part. Amateur and semi-pros need variety! I have over 100 router bits, some that I've used once.

Have you ever used a good router table, with a split fence? It's exactly the same operation, possibly with a shallower cut limit.

Let me know how that works out for face jointing. Jointers do more than create 90 degree, straight edges.

As can a router, in an easily made table with a split fence. There are plenty of high-quality tongue and groove, finger joint, etc... router bits out there. He's going to need the router anyway. One of the multi-base 2 1/4 HP kits will serve him well for years, in and out of the table, with the same cutters.

Nobody doubts that at all. But for a total beginner's first three machines?

Reply to
Bonehenge (B A R R Y)

| > How do you attach table tops to the apron? | > JP | | For solid wood tops, I like shop-made wooden blocks that mate with | grooves in the back of the apron, or metal "zee" fasteners in similar | apron grooves. | | Plywood or composite tops can be screwed dead tight with pocket screws | or corner blocks, as they won't move. | Good post, this is a real good fastening method.

have a good day, woodstuff

Reply to
woodstuff

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