JUST ONCE.....

Kids'll do that every day, anyway, Leon. It's our idiotic human nature to do so.

BINGO! Odds are 99:1 (or higher) right now that their dads won't have a SS at home.

-- I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty. -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

Reply to
Larry Jaques
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Reply to
HeyBub

Have you been living in a cave? The SawStop folks have persuaded the Consumer Product Safety Commission to propose a federal regulation mandating SawStop (or equivalent) on table saws.

It's right there in the Federal Register. You really should keep up.

Reply to
HeyBub

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:20:51 -0600, "HeyBub"

What if anything, does that proposed federal regulation say about previously owned table saws? Are they grandfathered in as being acceptable? Do we all need to buy our preferred choice of table saw before that proposed regulation comes into effect?

Reply to
Dave

I know riving knifes are now required to be **UL Compliant**. I do not know the significance of this compliancy (perhaps someone can address this), but it's not hard for me to imagine what the next requirement of UL Coompliancy could be for table saws.

Reply to
Bill

You can't seriously think anyone is saying every man woman and child, living in the US, would be forced to buy a table saw are you?

Ahhh, you are saying this... Very dumb of you.

Thank god for that. I don't think I'd have room if me, the wife, and two kids were each forced to buy a table saw with (or without) saw stop technology. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now that you cleared that up, do you think running a table saw/shaper/3hp router in a table with $300 lift would be safer with a power feeder? Should a power feeder be required with purchase of each of these machines? (Not by every person in the US, just those purchasing one of the tools that would be safer with a power feeder?

Should I be allowed to buy a (new) table saw w/o saw stop tech IF I bought a power feeder, and vice versa, or should I be required to buy both (if I were to buy a new saw, not implying everyone on earth should be required to buy any of the above tools...)

I am thinking anyone that buys a (new) Chevy Volt might also be required to buy a (new) table saw with a power feeder AND Saw Stop tech... Not sure why, but works for me.

Jack Got Change: Father knows best ===> Government knows best!

Reply to
Jack

I agree with you completely.

Take the weiner and whip it at the side of blade from the side like you do with your own hand, in a split second, after seeing wood jump and a suddenly loud bang near the blade that makes want to not be there suddenly. I mean, give it a rest. How many people slowly push there finger into the front edge of the blade? Maybe some have handicapped parking out the front of their shop too??

------------- On 1/20/2012 7:41 PM, tiredofspam wrote: Well, I guess you missed the challenge where Gass stuck his own finger in. No blood... But you as a non believer won't believe. No use trying to make you believe. Not worth the effort.

Reply to
Josepi

That's his point. It may not work as advertised. Who slowly pushes their finger into the front of the blade?

Reply to
Josepi

Video is the owner of Saw-Stop on his website. I think the (ice) salt water is to decrease the impedance of his skin so the detector can see his "meat" before getting past the high impedance part of your body (skin).

Human skin, especially on your hands is probably less conductive than most wood. It would have to cut away the skin into the conductive part of your body before triggering.

--------------

Per the website ad: "When skin contacts the blade, the signal changes because the human body is conductive." "The change to the signal activates the safety system."

If I recall, a show on cable called "Time Warp" captures action with a super slo-mo camera. They did a segment about the SawStop and used a real hand. The guy dipped his hand in ice water prior to the test, which I imagined was to slow blood flow, and cut wood allowing his hand to hit the blade and it worked. I can't find any videos right now, but searches may find results.

Reply to
Josepi

The videos stated that most of the accidents occur in seasoned professional after years of usage. Like most accidents...it's complacency. Good to depend on your own smarts and have a mechanical device as a backup.

Backup safety barriers are always good. If they aren't why does everybody have a first aid box handy? Everybody does right?... Right?

Much better, in my opinion, to train them to be extremely careful and to use the already mandated and supplied safety devices. - and to SUPPLY the devices. (like push sticks, finger boards, splitters and guards)

Good points.

If I was a high school shop teacher (and I am) and I had a saw stop, I would tell the guys that they did not work as good as it shows on you-tube and even worse, that they sometimes did not work at all. That way, they could not depend on the saw stopping to keep them safe, and they would have to work on developing safe work habits.

-- Jim in NC

Reply to
Josepi

Make somebody volunteer their own finger. That would stop the garbage.

i can guarantee if one of those was in a high school, there'd be a hotdog test every time the cartridge was replaced.

Reply to
Josepi

They cover the long term costs of the four operations in the videos. Whether exaggerated or not they are pretty high.

-------

Evidently, most tablesaur accidents are unrecoverable. The saw shatters the bones too badly in too many cases. Just call 'em Stubby.

Reply to
Josepi

Davey! Davey. How ignorant of you to say that! You have no idea how legal suits are done, do you?

When they give you the money you sign papers that silence you. The game is very early yet.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 08:26:04 -0600, Leon

There's one thing that all the SawStop naysayers don't consider. That is the fact that there's no incidents of the SawStop failing to function as it's designed to. (At least, I haven't heard of any) If there were, the news of it would have reverberated throughout the woodworking industry as well as all the general news sources.

Apparently, the SawStop works as it's designed to otherwise we'd all have heard about it. 'Nuff Said!

Reply to
Josepi

Now the feeling is tight again?

Reply to
Josepi

The Pharma Giants do the same thing with their drug trials. They get nine failures from their double blind studies and the tenth one is the one that gets published. There is no law stating you have to disclose tests that are negative.

I doubt a hotdog weiner that is flying through the air would trigger any electrical sensing apparatus. Judging by the claims made on the mfg. website videos they are lying about a lot of things.

i'm sure we won't be seeing any videos of it mangling a hotdog or other such thing. The gubmint would never allow the truth to come out about such things.

Reply to
Josepi

Let's see, one guy had 7 false one's in a couple of years and one grill that nicked a fing-ee that likely happened because of carelessness brought on by lack of respect enabled by the SS.

$100 for a good blade, $80 for the replacement mechanism, times 8, times

50... $72,000.

I think it would be close to "not cheap" at fifty times the price, at least I know no one that would own or use a tsaw with those sort of numbers mandated.

Also, a power feeder for the hand ringers would keep them safe at least on rip cuts, and it can be adapted to old saws, shapers, router tables and all sorts of dangerous equipment. Personally, I think old folks, like me, should be banned from the dangerous environment of a wood shop. I think it's starting to get a bit dangerous when I enter my shop. I guess I hafta look at it like mountain climbers look at mountains...

Don't need no steenking saw stops...

Jack

Reply to
Jack

I don't think every one is thinking that but there are those that probably do. In this day and age you never know what people are thinking.

No I am not saying this but it has been said repeatedly. I am simply pointing out that you do not have to purchase a TS at all.

It might be safer but I don't think it should be mandatory as with the SawStop.

Now having said that all the moaning, groaning and voicing an opinion of why we think Gass is a SOB apparently is not working.

What those that are clearly alarmed about the situation should do is voice that if this deal goes through that every one that has a TS now and "wants" to trade up gets full credit for the saw they already have as trade in. If you have a 15 year old cabinet saw and you want a new one but the manufacturer has to pay you what you paid for that saw 15 years ago as trade in.

The manufacturers can't have their cake and eat it too.

But seriously if the mandate goes through supply and demand will dictate pricing. We'll see then how many are in favor and how many are not.

Reply to
Leon

Now I will have to say to trip the mechanism that many times you also will have factor in positive trips that actually saved a finger or hand.

Lets say one time in 50, at Approximately $25,000~$35,000 per incident to cover emergency surgery and reconstruction and rehabilitation and perhaps a prosthetic and lost wages, TIMES 8 equals $200,000~$280,000,

Yes cheap at 50 times the price.

Reply to
Leon

As an employer, I'd take your $72k for 8 incidents any day over a jury award of $1.5 million for each incident ... $12,000,000, or over 1300 times the price.

:)

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Reply to
Swingman

Ryobi just learned that lesson.

Reply to
Leon

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