Jointing or Biscuits

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"Robatoy" wrote:
NO dog would eat tofu... it's just not done.
Isn't that what I said?
Lew
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Yes you did, and I simply pointed out that indeed NO dog would ever eat that, no exceptions. <G>
. . . well, maybe Paris Hilton's dog might, who knows what that poor animal has been force-fed.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

A cat would eat it, then go yak it up in your favorite shoes or whatever else will be the most annoying to you, and probably throw in a couple of partially digested stinkbugs for good measure. Cats don't get mad, they get even.
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--John
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

Cats are one of the best reasons the 12GA shotgun was invented.
Where I grew up, any cat more than 1/4 mile from a barn was shot, no exceptions.
It was obviously was a wild animal.
No self respecting cat would leave warm milk morning and night and all the mice it could catch.
Lew .
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Geez, all those poor cats that you shot while they were off making a booty call. Cats do not live by warm milk and mice alone.
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--John
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<...snipped...>

Shortage of push sticks in that area?
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
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That solar panel idea is a good one! Sometimes the best place to hide something is in plain sight.
And, if the electronics guys get really fancy, they could add servos and things to the slats in the shutters and follow the sun. (REALLY fancy and the shutters close themselves when NWS* issues a severe thunderstorm warning.)
* or Canada's equivalent agency
Puckdropper
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If you're quiet, your teeth never touch your ankles.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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So where do you live and can I hire u? I would love to find somebody with that work effort and fair prices.
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You'll just need to get good flat and straight edges and do a good glue and clamp job. Personally I would not do anything but that. Biscuits can help with alignment and a tounge and groove or spline joint also adds some strength but a panel in a door won't be taking any stresses and even so, a glue joint is probably 90% as strong as one with a mechanical joint if porperly glued and clamped. Be sure to use a waterproof glue since this is an exterior application..

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Thanks very much for all advice.
Arthur
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There you go, Arthur. You now have the answer. I would like to add, that cheapo biscuits often have random grain orientation as opposed to a diagonal to the oval shape, like 'select' biscuits such as the Lamellos. If a biscuit breaks along its length in your application, it would add less strength than if it was inclined to break on the diagonal. The change of grain direction along the stress line, adds strength.... assuming that the biscuit was installed properly, i.e. the slot (pocket) wasn't unnecessarily big. You want to take away as little of the original material as possible without running into a hydro-locking condition.
I have used thousands upon thousands of biscuits and conducted many tests and read/archived many such tests. The DO add strength to a joint, and in certain properly executed applications, can get close in performance to a floating tenon.
The drawback, of course, is that when you use biscuits to make a panel, you can see the telegraphed shape of the biscuit after you sand and finish the panel.
r->Zebco 6, 4' graphite ultra-light.
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No kidding... I haven't had that happen but once. Are you seeing this on a particular kind of wood or some size of glue up?
I know there are those that have this problem all the time, but I also know that you undoubtedly buy the good biscuits and are careful (as you cautioned above) about the installation technique.
I may not have this problem because 1) I am lucky! or 2) I dry fit the biscuits before I put them in the glue. If they don't slip in and out with just a little friction, they don't get used.
I only use the PC biscuits (I see you use Lamello) and quit using the "bag o' biscuits" when a great deal of them didn't fit right, weren't shipped properly (sealed containers) and they were crumbly.
Remember when companies like PC had actual, live tool reps, not 23 year old guys with degrees in marketing that simply filled out customer orders?
I went to a "PC Days" thing they had at Woodcraft many, many years ago and he told me their were three things that screwed up biscuit joinery (certainly not saying here that you are doing any of these!):
- Folks don't use enough biscuits (at 0.03 a whack, that one made me LMAO)
- They don't get the depth right (addressed by you)
- And they don't store the biscuits properly
According to the guy, the reason sPC went to the little clear bottles was to cut down on breakage, but more importantly keep the moisture out of the biscuits. Swelling of the biscuits was a known problem and PC apparently got a ton of them back as returns.
His opinion was that if you have to tap a biscuit in, it is too tight. He swore that tight biscuits (don't even go there, buddy... ;^) ) were the problem that caused their shape to be reflected through the wood due to their expansion when hit with the glue.
Your thoughts?
Robert
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On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:09:49 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Not to jump in but let's remember that a properly conceived biscuit is cut in section more or less at the point between quartersawn and plainsawn.
The natural expansion properties of such a biscuit make it expand in a predictable manner that does not transmit the expansion line to the face, if the face is more than 2X away from the thickness of the biscuit, which it should always be. This holds true for both laminated and solid goods.
Where I have seen bumps in the joint line they have invariably been the result of positioning of the biscuit too close to the face, or to using poor quality biscuits.
I use an antique Lamello Top 10 and always use the Lamello plates. I bought a couple of tubes of the PC variety and found that they did not mike out to a consistent thickness. I also found that too many of the plates were flatsawn, or close to flatsawn, and that made them unacceptable.
I keep my unused plates in a container with several SilicaGel bags that help keep the moisture content down to less than 4%. I also throw in a cheap hygrometer ($6.00) to make sure that moisture is not an issue.
Your friend is right about tapping the plates in; they are no good if they need more than a gentle push to insert them.
Lamello used to have standards on their website to let you know if the biscuits had gone out of spec.
Regards, Tom.
Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 / tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
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Although I keep my PC biscuits in a zip-locked bag, I'm concerned that over the years they may have absorbed some moisture.
Is there any fast/easy/cheap way of drying them out such as baking in an overn or microwave?
Thanks
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Do they still fit into the slot? If so, they are OK, if not try putting them in a 200 degree oven for a time.
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I live with a lot of humidity, so when I'm using biscuits, I put them in the microwave on "thaw" for a few minutes.. they get noticeably thinner..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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Although I keep my PC biscuits in a zip-locked bag, I'm concerned that over the years they may have absorbed some moisture.
Is there any fast/easy/cheap way of drying them out such as baking in an overn or microwave?
Thanks
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