Jointer vs Table saw cut quality

[Ba r r y]

In my experience a Freud, better DeWalt, etc... ($50-$60), and a Forrest, Systematic, or other "pro shop" blade ($100+), all start out cutting very nicely. A few hours of cutting later is when the difference becomes apparent. The $50 blade is still cutting OK, the better blade is still sweeeet!

Sometimes, all it takes is one very difficult board to show the difference. Woods that are prone to chip out or burning can magnify the difference.

I actually lived in the same camp as you, until I finally broke down and bought a WWII. FWIW, my local fine woodworking school prefers Systematic and Ridge Carbide blades over Forrest, and he's got them all.

Barry

[Charlie Self]

Barry responds:

My experience, too, but with Freud 410 blades instead of Forrest.

Anyone looking for SystiMatic blades: I wish you better luck than I had. They seem to have been bought by Simonds and turned into a sawmill brand with replaceable teeth.

Charlie Self "There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

[Leon]

If your saw has excessive run out and or is not set up properly, no blade is going to improve your cut. But if your saw is in good shape and properly "tuned", you will probably see the difference between a top quality blade and a so-so blade. Basically the Forrest stays sharp much longer. This equates to getting better looking cut edges for a longer period of time between sharpenings. In my case, I simply do not see any tooth marks and the surface is as smooth as glass regardless if you are ripping or cross cutting. Naturally there are times that you will see tooth marks but that is usually because the board not perfectly straight or flat. I seldom if ever have to sand cut edges any more and IMHO that alone is worth the extra cost of the Forrest blade.

Snip

as I said, I can often glue up

Often glue up right off the saw? Is there another way. LOL I always glue up right off the saw.

Sometimes I do have to hand plane an edge but that seems

This can happen with any blade and especially if the board is not straight or flat.

[Alex Feldman]

Couple of thoughts:

The jointer, or at least all those I have seen (I wonder if this will be one of those why-didn't-I-think-of-that innovations a few years down the road) has knives that cut perpindicular to the grain, with no shear at all. Depending on the pattern, saw blades can have at least a little shear, which should make for a cleaner cut.

Sawblades are usually carbide, jointer knives usually steel. The steel knives can be sharper at the outset, but will get dull quickly and then not be as clean.

Usually, the saw blade is go> >I believe that if all of the equipment is setup properly, all blades are

[TeamCasa]

Agreed. Dave

[TeamCasa]

A Diehl is usally not considered a machine sutiable for small shops. I have used one many times. There is simply no subsitute for HP (The one I used had 18" blade with 20hp!) and a power feeder.

Dave

[TeamCasa]

Leon said,

If you are unable to get your jointer to improve the edge and the edge is as Leon describes, why bother. However, my point is, when the situation, wood condition and other factors leave the edge unsutiable after ripping, a jointer will solve the problem.

Dave

[TeamCasa]

I'm sure you will enjoy the 54A. It is a very good machine and like any other essential tool, once you have one, you can not imagine how you managed before!

Dave

[TeamCasa]

Joe, I do have several Forrest blades and they perform very well. I am after-all an un-repentant tool junkie. I also have other very high quality blades that out perform the Forrest. (Relax everyone, the differences are very small and not worth describing in this thread.)

My point was, not whether a table saw could in some cases, produce an edge that was as good as a jointer, but that time and time again, a jointer will consistantly produce a better quality surface.

For glue-ups, the table saw can produce in most cases, produce a sutiable edge. What about the wood that decides not to cooperate?

Dave

[Peter De Smidt]

There's a company, the name of which escapes me, that sells jointer heads that use carbide inserts. The inserts are set so that they cut the wood at an angle to the grain. No, I'm not talking about Grizzly.

-Peter

[Swingman]

Agreed ... often wonder how/why I did without my 54A. Milling rough stock is just a fraction of its duty.

[mac davis]

My uneducated guess would be that if you could get that good of a square edge on a good table saw, the guys that do quality work all have jointers that they're wasting time with...

Every web page that I've looked at relating to this and related groups, there is both a saw and jointer... (and a surface planer

*sigh* *envy attack*)

[mac davis]

hmm... I have an old sears benchtop saw.... and an old chevy 327 in the shed... would about 400 horse power be enough?

[Charlie Self]

How does that relate? You joint a face and an edge, then rip the parallel edge. I see no lack of need for the jointer.

Charlie Self "There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

[Leon]

Huh... If you are infering that if a TS can produce an edge as clean as a jointer, the jointer is going to waste time, you are wrong. The jointer IS NOT supposed to be used to clean up TS cuts. A jointers primary purpose is to Straighten and Flatten Stock. If you are going from the TS to the jointer you are doing every thing backwards.

[bridger]

spiral cut jointers have been around for a long time. latest thing is indexed tooth cutter heads....

[Unisaw A100]

Bridger:

And don't forget the Uniplane.

[Bob G.]

==================== Whats to think about...your right !

Bob Griffiths

[Charlie Self]

UA100 responds:

thought of one of these in probably 20 years. OK if used with almost excessive care, but it's easy to understand why Delta quit making them.

Charlie Self "There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up." Booker T. Washington

[WoodMangler]

mac davis did say:

Almost certainly. If there's any doubt whatsoever, N2O is always an option.