In a separate thread, a discussion has evolved to discussing the difference between the quality of a surface prepared by a jointer and that of a rip from a tablesaw.
I believe that if all of the equipment is setup properly, all blades are quality ones, sharp and the procedures are sound, a jointer will still render a better quality surface than a tablesaw time and time again.
Thoughts?
Dave
Yup - though a table saw is potentially capable of turing out a cut perfectly suitable for glue up. Sometimes I get those, and sometimes I reach for my plane.
A better surface for looking at, or a better surface for glue adhesion?
Intuitively, it feels like the jointer should win even in the best conditions for the tablesaw. Each cut of the jointer is done by one blade which is a straight line moving to form a cylinder. You now concatenate very close cylinder surfaces, so the finish should be very smooth.
With the tablesaw, you achieve the cut plane surface by concatenating parallel circular lines -- if you move the wood too fast, it would tend to form grooves (you would have a surface akin to an old vinyl record -- an LP). If you move it slowly, it's better, but it still sounds like the surface should be more irregular than in the other case.
I'm no expert, BTW, but this is what my intuition tells me.
Carlos
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I've been using my Searz RAS for glue up ripping red oak. Can't feel any blade marks and can hardly find any with a bright light and a magnifying glass.
In theory yes but I can usually count on some tear out with the jointer whereas the table saw delivers me a glue ready edge without tear out.
UA100
there are several models of glueline ripsaws in the commercial field the most prevalent being the deihls, these critters achieve a cut line that will rival jointers and have been around for a lot of years but they depend on the feed systems to make them that accurate most people use their fence to joint with and it relies on the opposite edge of the board. there are power feed units for the medium and large shop model table saws but the can't match the length and grip of a feed chain. other major considerations are the rigidity of the blade and mounts, just an observation from a diehl 52 owner
used properly either tool can produce a surface siutable for glue adhesion as well as a surface with whatever tool marks there are small enough to escape the unaided eye. if you're getting out the magnifying glass all bets are off.
a well tuned table saw with a good quality sharp blade is a joy to work with....
depends on the tooth pattern. a saw blade made for finish cuts has big teeth with fairly long faces. the edge of the faces is a cutting surface which overlaps the cutting surface of the previous tooth.
it's not just cutting at the tips.....
I think the Freud crosscut blade makes a damn fine cut, and I don't imagine the rip blade is inferior in any way. I would think the answer would depend on how nice a jointer you were using, but after a certain point, I doubt it matters much- they're both excellent.
Interesting reading...whereas I religiously make a habit of ripping wide and then truing-up on the jointer, it now occurs to me that the little fuzzy surface on the saw-cut may actually provide for a better glue-up than the jointer produced glass surface. Will have to experiment.
I think it all depends on the quality of the equipment and the user technique. So far I have never been able to get my jointer to leave a shiny reflective surface on the edge of a board. I see this regularly with my TS. And yes, this is along the ripped edge.
Nope.
I have been cutting glueable edges with my table saw for years. Mainly because, until now, I have not had a decent jointer. It takes a good blade and a deliberate, smooth feed through the blade. Quite often, I ended up making more than one pass to get a good edge. Occasionally I ended up sweeping a lot of the "glueable edge" off the floor before I got there.
Tomorrow morning I'll finish setting up my new Powermatic 54A. It should be better than the 50 year old Craftsman 4" it replaced.
TeamCasa did say:
Setup?? Procedures?? Sharpness?? BAH!!! The tool with the most power is the best option. Always. HP beats sharpness any day of the week. Maximum current draw = maximum woodworking happiness.
IIRC, most modern glue manufacturers will advise you that a rough surface is of no benefit whatsoever.
Time and time again? Nope, don't agree. Many times I get an edge I can't improve upon off the saw. Sometimes not. The "improved" edge I get off the jointer is no better than the really good ones I get off the saw.
bob g.
TeamCasa wrote:
Even though you may believe that the jointer will win over the table saw, you also say that if all things are quality, the jointer will be the best cut still. Well, I have made cuts with my forest blades both on my CMS and table saw and have been told that the wood I cut was sanded with a 220 grit sandpaper.
After you have purchased a forest blade, you will wonder why you have a jointer other than to put a straight edge on rough lumber that you want to run through your table saw to get two parallel sides that both look like they have has a 220 grit sandpaper on. Suggestion: get yourself s forest blade for your table saw and then ask yourself this question.
-- Woody
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Horsepower. Yesssssssss.
All right. Enough. I almost surrender. As I've said in another thread, I've never seen the need to own a Forrest blade or any other "name" blade. Always found the lesser blade to be sufficient. But... I just keep hearing - well, reading about these named blades, so I have to ask. Just exactly what are you guys seeing when you go to these blades that I'm missing out on? I've gotten great life out of my blades over time, I get cuts that I have considered to be excellent - as I said, I can often glue up right off the saw. Sometimes I do have to hand plane an edge but that seems to be more because I fed the board inconsistently. All things are relative though. Great life, good edges, etc. are all compared to what would result from, oh say... breaking the board over one's knee. My table saw certainly provides a nicer edge than that would. More specifically, what have you guys seen or been impressed with when you went from a blade you were very please with to a Forrest or another named blade?
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