Jointer expectations from the mill?

[Swingman]

LOL! Doug, Doug ... fercrisksakes, _you_ really would benefit from spending less time behind that keyboard and more woodworking.

"Surfaced" (S2S, S2S1E, etc.) stock is primarily sold to folks who don't own jointers, or don't want to have to. You do NOT have to specify that it be "jointed" if the dealer is following accepted industry standards/practices.

Until you admit that basic concept, there is no further point in listening to your misconceptions.

--

Last update: 10/29/06

[Doug Miller]

And *you* would benefit a lot from thinking before you speak. If you had done that in this thread, for example, you wouldn't have made yourself look so silly as you have with your repeated insistence that S2S lumber doesn't need jointing.

I see you're still confused.

I imagine most S2S stock is sold to people who not only don't own jointers, but don't even know what a jointer is for. S2S stock still needs to be jointed before it will be flat, whether the purchasers want to or not -- or whether they know it, or not. And if you "don't want to have to" joint your lumber, then you should buy it already jointed. Note that S2S does not mean "already jointed".

Like I said, the misconceptions are totally on your part, and not mine. S2S lumber has two faces smooth and parallel, but those faces are not necessarily flat. If you think they are, then you need to use a better definition of "flat" when selecting your lumber.

[Swingman]

You are indeed correct ... "JTD" designates "jointed" stock, but refers to "finger jointed", or otherwise joined stock, not in the sense it is being used/misused in this thread.

[Doug Miller]

You still haven't figured out which one of us it is.

[Bill Stock]

Just to clarify, I didn't actually tell the mill I wanted S2S, I told them I wanted my lumber jointed on 1 Face and 1 Edge. I only used the S2S term here. The mill was actually telling one guy they would process his lumber as S3S, which I assume actually meant jointed and planed.

Not a problem, if I had a thin skin I wouldn't post here.

Thanks to Barry, Toller, Doug and George M for the advice.

[Swingman]

"S3S" usually equates to "S2S1E" - surfaced two faces and 1 edge ... which would be a excellent choice for you/someone with no jointer, and with a planer and table saw.

... but that S3S designation could vary according to lumber type and region. I've bought cedar as S3S where it was one surface faced and two edges straight line ripped.

[George Max]

Yes. Definitely.

[George Max]

Yeah, that can work. Heck, I've probably done it. But if you joint an edge right away, you *might* have to joint your edge against the grain.

This is good to ask for when you don't own a jointer but do own a TS and a planer. Good idea.

The bed I built for wifey and I was made exactly that way. The size of the planks exceeded the width of my jointer, but not the width I could plane. I took a long look at the planks and decided that if I was careful I could get away with using planer only. It worked that time, but won't always. Remember, the planer has to press the wood to the bed to get 'er to move through. That much pressure can temporarily flatten it yet let it spring back to it's formerly warped state (cup, twist, ect.) In this case, not only was the wood naturally pretty flat, it was 2 inches thick. My lunchbox probably can't flatten that no matter what.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Quite a long thread about terminology. I guess I have it good with my main supplier.

Q. How thick do you want it? A. 3/4"

Done in just a minute at no additional cost.

[Doug Miller]

which means *planed* two faces, not *jointed*.

That doesn't make any sense at all. If he has no jointer, but he does have a planer and a table saw, then the last thing he wants to buy is wood that hasn't been jointed (and therefore still needs to be). He should be buying exactly what he asked the lumberyard for: jointed one face and one edge. He can then use his table saw and planer to surface the other edge and face.

[efgh]

This thread has gone on too long arguing over interpretations.

[Doug Miller]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "arguing over interpretations"? What's to interpret about "jointed"? Either stock has been jointed straight and flat, or it has not. S2S lumber is in the latter category.

[efgh]

Maybe I should have said expectations.

[CW]

I have a planer. No jointer. I buy all my wood rough. In no way is a jointer a necessary tool. If you just want one, fine but I can't see having one myself. I doubt I ever will.

[Swingman]

Can't argue with you at all on that count, I spent 30 years of woodworking without a jointer ... however, what you apparently missed was the context.

To do what the previous posters were advocating (the part of the quote included in my reply above) _ using a jointer in the proper sequence_, owning a jointer IS necessary to the methodology being proposed ... even it is just a jointer plane.

The point of my quote above: no sense in leading the OP repeatedly through the process if he doesn't own a jointer.

My mistake was in thinking that would have been obvious to someone following the thread, obviously not.

Mea culpa ... I really should know better after over 8,000 posts on the wRec ... you really have to watch what you say around here as there are a few who obviously have nothing else to do but argue their misconceptions, or what they have erroneously perceived.

[George]

All those fools who own 'em are wrong, I see.

Get one, it'll save a lot of time. If you're a process over product, sweat on!

[Andrew Barss]

Swingman wrote: :> jointed flat.

: LOL! Doug, Doug ... fercrisksakes, _you_ really would benefit from spending : less time behind that keyboard and more woodworking.

You've got a lot of chutzpah for someone who's dead wrong on this.

: "Surfaced" (S2S, S2S1E, etc.) stock is primarily sold to folks who don't own : jointers, or don't want to have to.

Actually, a lot of it is sold to people who don't know what a jointer is, nor care. If you're putting up some shelves in the garage to hold stuff, you might not care (or notice) that a board has some twist, or cup, to it. If you're a carpenter and puting up soffits, you probbaly don't care that the boards aren't the flat you get from a jointer.

And a lot of S2S is sold to people who simply aren't near a mill. I have several excellent hardwood suppliers within driving distance, but I can't buy rough lumber from them -- they don't buy it.

You do NOT have to specify that it be : "jointed" if the dealer is following accepted industry standards/practices.

: Until you admit that basic concept, there is no further point in listening : to your misconceptions.

You are really, really confused. everything Doug Miller has said in this thread is completely correct, and much of what you've said is plain ignorant. (I wouldn't put it so bluntly, but you've also been pretty arrogant in your condescending responses to Doug's posts.)

S2s is run through a planer to get the wood smooth, and have its faces be parallel to each other. That is NOT necessarily flat.

-- Andy Barss

[Swingman]

Read it again ... then read what you parroted.

And that proves what?

standards/practices.

What, in saying that you don't have to specify "jointing" when purchasing S2S1E lumber?

Once again, it is simply NOT necessary!

No one said it was ... you have to be smart enough to leave what's not at the lumber yard, something the two of you haven't snapped to.

Now, let's just cut to the chase. Rather than dignify any further responses from you with replies, lets just say you are still the d*****ad you were back when ostriches were from Australia, so, once again, go f*ck yourself.

[CW]

Fools owning tools is wrong, I agree. They may well hurt themselves.

Should justify it's existance in about 2050. I have better things to do with my money.

[Doug Miller]

Not if you don't *want* it jointed, anyway... If you *do* want it jointed, though, you'd better say so, or it won't be.

No, what *you* haven't "snapped to" is that the lumber you are buying is *not* dead flat like lumber that comes off of a jointer. If you *think* it is, then you need to raise your standards for picking lumber... or get your eyes checked.