I'm putting together a oak table top. Typically one would dimension a piece of wood by jointing one edge, then ripping the other edge, parallel, on the TS. My concern is that I don't get the same quality surface by ripping then I do by jointing. This will, in essence, give me one less-than perfect edge for each joint when I go to glue up the top. Should I add one last step by running the just-ripped edge through the jointer, giving me two jointed edges? I'm planning to do this, it seems like the best option, I'm just concerned that by jointing both edges I might not get the perfect parallel edges that I would with the first plan. I'm I making myself clear? Thanks for any assistance.
Very clear. If your jointer takes off more on one end of each board, feed the boards through starting at alternate ends. Just keep good track of your layout and which edge goes where. I wonder if this might be a good application for a planer. Joint all the boards, bundle them together with the jointed edge down and bun the through the planer. Just and idea. Mike in Arkansas
Ok, here is how I do it. First, my glue-up is intentionally oversized. I will cut the final size and make sure it is square once I am finished. I joint the one edge and rip to width just as you describe. Yes, there is one edge that is rougher. At some point I run everything through the thickness planer to make sure they are the same thickness. Now, I take each mating edge and run them through the jointer at the same time. That way, any minor diversion from 90 degrees on my jointer will not be a problem. Whatever the real angle, the mating surfaces will have complementary angles. Therefore, the boards will lay flat. I do not concern myself with the edges ending up exactly parallel at this point. Why? Because, as I mentioned, I will do my final sizing and squaring after the glue-up is complete.
If you're getting a better quality surface from the jointer, then you need to check the alignment of your table saw, clean your blade, refine your technique, get a better blade, get a better fence, get a better saw, or some combination of the above.
You mean, giving you two less-than-perfect edges. :-)
A good rip blade on a properly aligned table saw leaves a better edge for gluing than a jointer does.
It's right to be concerned about the jointer leaving non-parallel edges, but if (a) the jointer is properly set up, (b) the edges are parallel coming off the table saw, and (c) you take a light cut on the jointer, then you don't really need to worry. If it's off, it won't be by more than a few hairs.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Mike, that will work, only if his boards are narrow enough to go through the planer. On my DeWalt 733 that means less than 6". At that he had best use some good hand screws to keep all boards together and aligned.
if your saw blade produces a surface that leaves visible gaps at the glue line you can do either of 2 things.
1> get a better blade
2> clean up the edge. one pass on the jointer, especially with the jointer set to take a very fine cut won't get you out of parallel enough to matter.
Doug, You must be referring to a HF jointer or one that is set-up poorly, dull or not being operated properly.
My Unisaw is setup perfectly, with clean and sharp blades and yet the cut is never as clean and perfect as a pass through my jointer.
The OP wants to insure perfectly parallel pieces for a glue-up. My procedure has been the same for many years.
Joint two sides, insuring a perfect 90, use the jointed side against the TS fence and down on the table, rip a touch oversize, joint the ripped edge flat, glue, clamp, run through planer (or neander flat), cut to final width and length.
Then you're doing something wrong, possibly starting with blade selection. A 30 tooth (10" diameter) rip blade in top condition, properly set up, on any of the last three saws I've owned gives an edge almost indistinguishable from the jointed edge. Most of the time, the jointer used was a DJ20 that was correctly set, with sharp blades. Both edges were excellent.
Charlie Self "There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up." Booker T. Washington
There's something amiss, then -- possibly your choice of saw blade. Or perhaps you and I have radically different understandings of the phrases "setup perfectly" and "clean and perfect".
No matter how good your jointer is, or how well it's set up, it simply isn't possible to obtain a dead flat surface (my understanding of "clean and perfect") with a jointer: at some scale, the surface left by a jointer is scalloped. Better quality tools, careful setup, sharp knives, and careful technique all work to minimize the extent of the scalloping, but cannot eliminate it altogether.
If you're getting better edges with your jointer than you are with your table saw, then there's something wrong with your table saw.
OK so far, although I'd prefer to use more specific terminology, e.g. "Joint one face and one edge... use the jointed edge against the TS fence and the jointed face down on the table".
On a correctly aligned, well-made table saw using a decent fence and a decent blade, this is totally unnecessary, as the ripped edge is already flat.
If this doesn't happen on your saw, you need one or more of a better saw, a better blade, a better fence, better alignment tools, better alignment technique, or better ripping technique.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug, I assure you my equipment is setup correctly. My blades range from custom made ones, Systematic, Ridge Carbide to the WW11 from Forrest. They are all maintained well and very sharp.
I'll grant you that in most cases, when the wood cooperates, the cuts do come out of the TS fine enough for gluing. But, as many woodworkers and no-doubt you will also admit, when ripping some woods, they can sometimes become unruly when sliced. This is simply not preventable and we all know it. This will affect the quality of the cut.
The jo>OK so far, although I'd prefer to use more specific terminology, e.g. >"Joint
Of course it will. And under a glass, say a 4X or 8X photo loupe, you can easily see that a jointed edge is cleaner than a sawn edge. But with the nekkid eye, it can be diffcult to tell the difference. And I tend to leave my loupes in places other than the shop. My point being, it is seldom necessary to joint that second edge to get a good, solid glue up. But, as with all generalities, there are weaknesses in the statement. Reaction wood is one weakness. There are others, and there are some species of wood where jointing may be more often needed.
And for many people, jointer technique and jointer set up are going to contribute to lesser edges on the second edge. They may take off a shade too much, rock the board, or any of innumerable other actions that reduce the cleanness, and parallel, of the edge.
So, IMHO, it's better to try for a near perfect first jointed edge, and then use a properly set up saw to produce a rip that is glue-line quality. Several companies, including DeWalt, put out 40 tooth (10") so-called 'finish' rip blades. These are apt to give an even smoother edge than the 30 tooth glue-line types. High speed (feed speed) 24 tooth rip blades are not in the same class, for the most part.
Charlie Self "There are two ways of exerting one's strength: one is pushing down, the other is pulling up." Booker T. Washington
IMO, it is a matter of personal preference and/or the way you're accustomed to doing certain operations. For instance, I almost always joint both edges of a critical glueup, even with a sharp(ened) WWII on the table saw. From a recent post that addresses your "parallel edges" query:
When you do your layout for your glue-up, and after you've used your "cabinet maker's mark" of choice to mark the order of the boards, faceup, put an "I" on one side, and an "O" on the opposite side of each joint with a piece of chalk/pencil.
"I" (inside) means that face goes against the jointer fence.
"O" (outside) means that face goes away from the jointer fence.
This will go a long way to insuring you take advantage of complementary angles without getting mixed up, and will speed the process tremendously
Thanks for all of the comments. It sounds like I will go with the above suggestion (the way I was leaning anyway!). It seems like a light pass after ripping won't do anything more than clean up the saw marks, and won't throw the edge far enough out of parallel to the other side to be of concern.
I'm interested by the debate over the quality of the edge after either ripping or jointing. I have a brand new jointer and the edge it gives is superior. I will admit that my TS is only of mediocre quality, but I just can't imagine ever getting the edge as perfect as one can with a properly tuned jointer. Guess I better keep working on my technique (I do use featherboards, and outfeed tables:)
This process does indeed eliminate any worries about edge parallelism across the width, by insuring that any errors that may exist will cancel each other out when the glue-up is assembled.
However, it does nothing to address the worries about edge parallelism along the length. Jointing both edges of a board risks introducing a taper -- which was the concern cited by the original poster IIRC.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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You'd be amazed at how much improvement you'll get from a really good blade (such as a Forrest WoodWorker II), even on a mediocre table saw.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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