joinery

I would love to learn joinery, done by hand with chisels on a small scale, anyone know of a good site that has such tutorials please? Dovetail seems to be the idea, but I think the other kind of fitting like that would be square as a start ... term?
Thanks all, Alex
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Do you mean a box joint?
Consider wandering on over to the local library or book store and look specifically at books on joinery.
Michael

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Pick up a copy of "The Encyclopedia of Joint Making" or "The Joint Book" by Terrie Noll. I have the former and it's pretty good at showing hand techniques. Also "The Complete Manual of Woodworking" is also an excellent starting out book. Look in your local bookstore for more joinery books. Amazon is okay, but you can't see what's between the covers to see if it fits your criteria. As I'm always finding out, there's more than one way to mark out and cut dovetails.
The term you're looking for is "box" or "finger" joint. It's used in...you guessed it boxes...where the stresses are up or down rather than sideways. The dovetail is good for boxes that experience lateral stresses like a drawer front. The dovetails in the drawer sides keeps the drawer front from pulling apart from the side panels. It's not enough to know how to make a joint but also what joint is appropriate for strength and aesthetics.
Layne
wrote:

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AArDvarK wrote:

http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html http://www.shavings.net/DOVETAILS.HTM http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Dovetail/dovetailjoints.htm http://www.amgron.clara.net/dovetails/dovetailindex.htm http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea12.html http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid S1821-0001-9 http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/homei/9811HIFMGM.html
Wolfgang
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why not dovetails? http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DovetailDrawer0.html
charlie b
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Camera, it needs box / finger type. Thank you. Alex

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Presumably you are building a view camera. Certainly the box joint is traditional, but I don't see any reason why it *needs* this joint; a dovetail should do equally well, although they would need to be quite small and in very thin stock (typically) so would be a challenge.

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1/4" thick cherry, carvable strong wood for cameras.
The point is learning it in order to accomplish it, that is the value, which is the real need, to creat a thing of beauty that is useable, and I am genuinly "nowhere man" in this skill.
Further I have found that the hidden dovetail idea is even more of a turn-on, with diagonal corner connections. This would be highly astheticaly accepatble. So now I am looking at hand chisels and prices, I have a Sandvik but it is a 3/4" and I'll need a 1/8" or a 1/4". I don't know if I need bevel edge or mortise type. Just trying to learn here. Any good brands at good prices? I noticed the Crown brand from the U.K. are nicely priced ... but I would prefer U.S. made.
BTW you will NEVER find a wooden folding field camera from any maker that is showing dovetail corners. It ain't-not-never done man ...
thanks for your input, Alex
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AArDvarK writes:

Freud is not US made, but is a good chisel. You need a bevel type, NOT a mortising chisel.

Sounds like a good reason to try to build one that way.
Charlie Self "Property is not the sacred right. When a rich man becomes poor it is a misfortune, it is not a moral evil. When a poor man becomes destitute, it is a moral evil, teeming with consequences and injurious to society and morality." Lord Acton
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brought forth from the murky depths:

Didn't Pam Niedermayer used to build those?
- Don't be a possum on the Information Superhighway of life. ---- http://diversify.com Dynamic Database-Driven Websites
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Heh, oh, I know. My own (a Wisner, not the best, but nice) is certainly box jointed as is all the others I have seen. However, this is not necessarily because it is not suitable; what is needed is a very strong joint that works in thin stock. A box joint is easily made on a router or tablesaw, is highly accurate, extremely strong and -- IMO -- not too bad looking. All these are excellent reasons for a *manufacturer* to use the joint. *You* have more flexibility. The strength is still a must; no joint even remotely weak should be used. Outside of that, you have a lot more options then a person trying to make a buck at it. This is the great luxury of the amateur and why sometimes amateur work can far exceed professional work (outside of show pieces and ultra-high-end).
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That is a very good set of points but I am skill-less. The box joint will be the easiest to learn for chiseling anyway. M hidden dovetail is off in the future too.
Wisners, never even saw one in person myself, much less touched one. But why do you think, technically, that Wisner isn't the best? Which is the best?
Alex
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Hmmm...I never used the word "technically", and did that quite on purpose. Technically it is a light tight box and works quite admirably at that. I have the Pocket Flight.
From a WW perspective, its fit and finish is not the greatest. There is tear-out along quite a few of the joins. This is not surprising from very thin american black cherry, but does detract from the workmanship. It is, on the whole, not terribly inspired, WW wise. The metal bits are aluminum covered with brass. I wish they would not have done that; the brass will wear off eventually and look like crap. Better to have embraced the aluminum.
On operation, some of the movements (particularly front/back swing) are kind of sticky and clunky. No movements are geared. Front rise and fall are -- IMO -- somewhat limited (though not horribly). The focus lock know tends to tighten when you focus. Focus can bind a little here and there. One of the levels is glacially slow.
This is mostly nit-picking; it is actually a pretty great camera and insanely small and light for a 4x5; possibly one of the smallest/lightest full-movements 4x5s around. In its class, the Ebony seems better constructed (but also quite a bit more expensive).
Various models are different enough to eliminate the possibility of naming a best, I think.
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Okay thank you very much. That is the first perspective I have read about any Wisner. I have been looking at them online only for a few years now and they "look" beautiful. I also know a local camera repair man who specializes in LF, he says the Wisner company does very poorly dealing with warrentee repairs, although I don't know all the dimensions of that... I have the Bender 4x5 to build and have finished the front standard, and there is this online set of plans, folding field 8x10, for free that I want to try, I collected everything on it but I must practice those box joints first. Take a look: free http://www.srv.net/%7Evail/index.html upper of the two pics plans $10 http://www.cyberbeach.net/~dbardell/camera.html Best example I have seen of a homebuilt: http://www.duckproductions.com/camerabuilding.htm
Alex
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They are purdy. I think an Ebony is more beautiful, but the only one I had an opportunity to own didn't have interchangeable bellows, a must for me. Still I have no major complaints. On service...well, I haven't had any issues (no service to be done), but some have complained bitterly. One of the "hot" issues.

I have had a look at those before; I also considered building my own. I have heard it said that you can build cameras or you can use cameras but you can't do both. Might be some truth to that.
Good luck with your project! Make sure you post pics.
BTW, go to http://largeformatphotography.info . Their forum (and on-line articles) are second to none, IMO. A few builders there too. Somewhere there is a mailing list for builders too...
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