Jet contractor's saw motor differences truth or bs? a little long.

I recently bought a Jet contractor's saw from a local Woodc... er um retailer that displays Jet/ Powermatic. Thought it was a decent deal. The one with two cast iron wings and the jet fence (not the biesmeyer knock off) and got it for $650 saved about $100 (JWTS-10CW2-JF). I have an Incra fence so that is not impoertant. As it turns out I most like ly wont be using oneor both of the cast wings anyway and will use router extensions to maximise use of incra and minimize garage floor space. There is a Menards (big box) closing in the Chicago Burbs and I could get a stamped wing version JWTS-10JF-LFR for $366+tax. I called the mgr at the local Wood.... and told him about the opportunity and asked what he thought. I have bought other things there and would have turned around and re-spent the $650 on a better dc setup anyway. He told me that the difference wasn't just the wings for $300 difference but that the motors are different. I got the customer service # and tried to call jet on a Saturday morning only to be greeted by a recording that they were closed. There are no differences in specs between the two on paper and the manual in the box for the cast wing version is even the manual for the steel version(JWTS-10JF) but no mention of LFR suffix. Google had some mention of the LFR suffix model in Australia. It seems to mean something compoletely different there because their version has cast wings. (In other words yes I already checked Jet's website and Google)
After spending ~$2K with them (on various things) I would like to hear he gave me the straight scoop. BTW the saw I bought is still in the box.
Anyone know the story on these contracotr's saw? Do the big box version have a lesser motor? I am pretty sure I have read about Delta doing some of that with the models Lowe's has for example.
Help please.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Bob by Chicago.
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On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:53:07 GMT, "Bob by Chicago"

I have the $599 stamped wing version, my buddy has the $799 cast wing version, with the upgraded fence. Both have the same TEFC 1 1/2 HP motor as my DC-1100 dust collector.
My saw was bought in 1998, his in 2001, and my DC-1100 in 2002. MY TS motor is black, the DC and my buddy's saw have white motors. Other than the color, the motors are identical.
I doubt the big box saw has a different motor. It _may_, but I doubt it.
Barry
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It is possible that the motors on the tablesaws are different. I know that the drill press motors are different--the difference is easily visible. The Jet drill press at Menard's has an open-drip-proof motor while the same drill press (with a higher price tag) at Woodcraft has a TEFC motor.
Which Menards is closing?
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The ~$350 Jet CS at Menard's is different from the one I have with stamped wings (from ~1996). It looks like a benchtop saw (i.e. no motor hanging out the back). I didn't look underneath the saw but I assume that it is a direct drive, universial motor type. Certainly not enough room in there for the TEFC induction motor.
Dave
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I don't believe the motors are different. I bought my JWTS-10CW2-JF over two years ago from my local Rockler and the badge on the side of the saw beneath the bevel crank labels it as a JWTS-10CW2-LFR ... My guess when I noticed this model number while putting together my saw was that this is the model number for the saw only (since the same saw is offered with several different fence options), and that when packaged with either the JetFence or the Xacta Fence the model number of the "package" becomes JWTS-10CW2-JF or JWTS-10CW2-whatever Xacta is...
Good luck and have fun with it. It is a great saw.
-- Brian www.wood-workers.com/users/lavoie
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Thank you to those who replied.
So here is what I found out.
It turns out to be more of a lie story from the local Woodcraft (Palatine, IL). I finally got in touch with WMH (Jet) they confirmed that in fact besides the cast vs. stamped wings. Otherwise the same saw exactly. Of course the clearance saw price at the relocating Menard's is no longer an option. It was their normal $524 less 30%. Now comes the rant as promised to them.
I contacted Woodcraft's national customer support Yesterday and told them I would give them 24 hours to respond before I let the world know. There is more. I also received an email from their corp Friday apologizing for not having sent out a notice on a 10% off Delta sale from a couple of weeks ago and that they would let me order anything from their website and gave me a code for a 10% discount. I ordered a Jet 14" band saw w/cab base. They called me early Monday morning to advise me that the discount excluded power tools. I was in my car so I couldn't look at the original email until later in the day. Sure enough I verified that it was not only to make up for a missed power tool sale, but the language said " We earnestly apologize for not sending your Delta 10% Off Sale email reminder. Please use coupon code XXXXX to get 10% off anything at Woodcraft through Saturday, Dec. 20. Offer not available in stores. Order by Dec. 18 to get ground shipping in time for Christmas!" How would you read that? So I replied to their customer support about both issues. They called back this morning and advised that they would after all honor their 10% discount after all. The truth is because you have to forego a normal shipping discount to use the code they sent, it really only came out to be ~7.5% anyway. Their customer service person was very nice but did nothing but give me reasons why the ordering staff was inept Monday morning.
Between the two separate issues, and having already spent the $$ for the Table saw, a drill press and several hundred dollars worth of hot rod crap (link belt, dial indicator, nice fence, etc.) since Thanksgiving, I declined to reorder and deal with getting 257 pounds off the back of a semi for the net savings plus grief. They never addressed the retail store and their point blank lie about the inferior quality of the same tool from another source. They said they forwarded my complaint to their retail group, whatever that means, since it is a franchise location. I have heard nothing from them.
I evaluate and buy automotive repair equipment for a living. In that world even the best brand names are only as good as their distributors and they only as good as their service and their word. Both are in the toilet as far as I am concerned. I am tempted to take the darn thing back anyway, but loading that beast and the drill press and everything else I have bought there in the last month back up and telling them to stick it is more trouble than it is worth. Caveat Emptor in north west Chicago burbs and corporately with Woodcraft. This is very disappointing. There was nothing in the store that would have lead one to suspicion, quite the contrary really. I was really hoping I would have one of those " their customer service is amazing" stories I have read about on this group occasionally.
End of rant. Thanks for listening.
Bob by Chicago.
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This crap permeates the little stores. I hear the same thing about DeWalt tools at HD compared to my local True Value store. The told me the HD tools were inferior. Of course I asked "what exactly is different in them?" but only got a blank stare, not a part number, not a material difference, nothing. Unless someone dissects the two tools and shows me a difference in bearings or wall thickness of the housing, or other inferior parts, they are just full of crap. I lost all respect for the True Value guy and told him since he was a liar I'd buy from Home Depot instead and did just that. Ed snipped-for-privacy@snet.net http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
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wrote:

I absolutely agree that there are no real differences in the actual machines when the model numbers are the same.
However, I've noticed that the larger stores (Costco, Lowes, HD) often get slightly different packaging of the same basic tools.
For example, Cstco has a Skil Mag77 worm drive saw right now for a lower price than either HD or Lowes - but the HD version comes with a special carrying bag, while the lowes version has an extra long cord. These are trivial differences, but they're enough to kill any possibility of using the better costco price to get the 10% discount at lowes or HD. Another common thing is to see an extension cord included by one retailer but not another.
I actually do think the manufacturers are doing this to make it more difficult to do direct price comparisons (perhaps at the request of the retailers). I also think it's possible that in some cases the differences are because of low stock turnover. My local HD, in particular, just doesn't seem to sell a lot of tools - they always seem to have versions of tools that are 6 months or more behind everybody else.
Tim Carver snipped-for-privacy@twocarvers.com
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wrote:

Right, with different manufacturers stock numbers, making price matches impossible.
This is also done on gas grilles, appliances, lawn equipment, you name it. <G> Take washing machine "A", add a "free" box of detergent, and you now have a different package.
Barry
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On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:38:24 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .

Agreed. However, It's also been my experience that both HD and Lowe's will ignore minor differences if you talk to the right people. For example, I was able to get Lowe's to match the HD price when I bought 4 large spools of conduit wire. The basic wire was essentially the same (#12 stranded, MTW, oil-resistant, blah ...) but the brands were different. There was actually quite a bit of money involved , and they cheerfully did the match. However, I had to make my case to a manager, the counter person turned me down at first.
Tim Carver snipped-for-privacy@twocarvers.com
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wrote:

I meant to say, they did the normal Lowes match - they gave me the HD price less 10%.
Tim Carver snipped-for-privacy@twocarvers.com
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This system was first started by Compaque Computers they were packing systems for everybody and everybody was giving the 10% advertising crap, thats when they would tell you it was not the same model, I went to buy a DW about 10 years ago found a good Maytag for a decent price at a an appliance store. Was about to get it and then said to the wife lets go over to Circuit City They say they are the lowest and carry this Brand. Found what looked to be identical DW for about 50 bucks more and i nailed the salesman and asked why the other store had it for 50 less. SO he calles gets the model # and told me it was a differant model # Circuit city was 0000-22 the other one was 0000 I asked what the F#$% was the differance he showed me a small 1/4" wide trim accross the door that meant diddletwat. He matched the price and then told me how they large retailers ask for these provisions from the manufacture Hey when the retailer slaps his checkbook on the table for large orders the manufacture just says glad to comply sir not realizing they are whoring the name of their own product after spening zillions advertising how good their name is. Keeps on Proving that money is power
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