I would venture a guess that both time and material for this were
already "paid for."
The wood was probably leftover cut-offs from ripping rough lumber to size.
The time... all 30 minutes of it :-)... was probably "leftover" time
from waiting for something to cure/dry or that magic period between work
and a meal in which there's not enough time to start another
step/procedure. We've certainly all had 30 minutes in "wife-time" that
were spent looking for something to do while she takes "5 minutes"
to put her face on before going out to dinner. :-)
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
You're right about project cutoffs being used when possible.
What is being discounted in this little 'Tete a Tete' is the fact that
correctly sizing mortise and tenon joints is dependent upon very specific
parameters, both regarding material dimensions, and the job of the
These traditional parameters are based on practices that have "stood the
test of time", and are ignored at your own peril.
While the original Domino is quite adequate for most tasks, the above is
the main reason why I did not rush to replace my Multi-Router with the
To argue in favor of purchasing "standard" size loose tenons, versus taking
the negligible time to make "custom sized", and without regard to time
tested methods of properly sizing the joinery ... and to use the rationale
that "time is money" for that argument, is simply an indication of a lack
of experience in the operation.
I think you do have to agree though, that between the Domino 500 and
the new XL700, a large variety of tenon sizes are covered. I'd suggest
to you that you could take double the time to make your specialized
tenons and have even a better fit.
But, even you have a cut off time where you determine that it's not
worth further time and effort. The phrase "time is money" is not as
useless a rationale as your statement above would suggest.
That response was before I found out you were talking about odd sized
tenons. When I replied I thought you were making loose tenons
comparably sized to regular Domino tenons.
There has to be a cut off point where it's cheaper time wise to buy
the tenons instead of making them. After all, you do have other things
to do besides just making loose tenons.
All of this is a moot point anyway. If you need some Domino sized
tenons, you can invite your buddy over for dinner and ask him to bring
some tenons with him. :)
No, you are missing the point.
Once again ... I do custom work, I have the capability to dimension the
tenon for maximum strength, I cut "custom sized" tenons, I have used that
term repeatedly since my original post in this thread, I can't buy "custom
sized" tenons at Rockler and refuse to use "standard, one size fits all to
the possible detriment of the integrity of the project joinery.
You took it upon yourself to reply to my post flatly stating that this
practice was a waste of time, and a "burning distraction", obviously
without any experience to back it up.
You are totally wrong in that statement, and in your assumption, for that
is what it is, an assumption, based on nothing but conjecture.
I'll ask you the same question asked of Dave ... Where does one buy "custom
sized" tenons in order to forego this imagined waste of time and money of
Let me hear a reply based on experience ... enough assumption and
I often wonder how threads on the rec spin out of control... There was
nothing in my posts that should have gotten you all hot and bothered. The
first one about "time" had an exclamation point no less! Thus there was no
need for personal attacks about experience, skill, or anything else. That
said, my experience and skills are adequate to have gleaned me a box full of
woodworking awards from multiple shows and have kept me on the
lecture/instructor schedule for the past decade or so. I've lost actual
count of both... My experience as a management professor and project manager
never let me stray far from cost/benefit analysis.
Being treasurer for the Northeastern Woodworkers Association's Mid-Hudson
Chapter for about 9-10 years has afforded me the opportunity to see a lot of
work, a lot of shops, and meet a lot of professional woodworkers (all kinds
from local to the internationally famous), writers and editors. TV
woodworkers too... Abram, Marks, Underhill--I originally met him while I was
working at Colonial Williamsburg, VA when he was the master housewright. As
such, I've got a pretty good idea how things work and fully appreciate that
there are often myriad ways in which a task could be completed. Thus I was
making an informed observation about time.
All that said, I generally use mortise and tenon and/or hand cut dovetails
in my solid wood work. For the one off furniture and cabinet work I do
there hasn't been a time where mortise and tenons were a problem. My solid
wood casework and drawers are typically done with hand cut dovetails with
some frame and panel pieces thrown in too. Splines, loose tenons, biscuits,
nails/screws and glue show up in some works depending on the fineness of the
work and the intended use.
I am reminded of a dinner discussion the Saturday evening of Woodworkers
Showcase 2008 with Doug Stowe, Peter Korn, Wayne Barton and others. Chris
Schwarz had made other plans for that evening that included drinking beer...
;~) During the discussion a comment was made by Peter that amateurs will
continue to do the best work as professionals do not have time to do so and
make a living. That theme permeates most of the discussions I have had with
professional woodworkers... they need to get the job done as quickly,
efficiently and workmanlike as possible in order to make a decent living.
There are only a few professionals whom I know who work in the
museum/gallery markets who command prices high enough to strive for
perfection in their work--I wouldn't call any of them rich. The "production
shops" (that do jobs like built ins and interior trim for hotels, banks,
churches, hospitals, etc.) seem to be more acutely aware of the time costs
than the others as 5-10 minutes per unit adds up to hours and even weeks of
shop time on big jobs. This time cost is less visible in one off work but
still impacts the income surplus at the end of the year.
Easy ... do as you did: introduce pure conjecture into a discussion
based on hands on experience and then unilaterally decree it a waste of
time and a "burning distraction".
Despite all the horn tooting/name dropping, a simple question, asked of
you regarding a position that _you_ alone took upon _yourself_ to
interject into a conversation, remains totally ignored and unanswered.
Maybe this one is easier for you:
Just how many loose tenons does a "management professor" have to cut
before he takes it upon himself to unilaterally decree it a waste of
time and a "burning distraction"?
In my world we discuss and debate ideas and solve problems... We spend some
time discussing events themselves and pretty much no time talking about
people. With the slide from ideas to personal attacks this thread itself has
become a "time burning distraction." It warrants no further attention as
you clearly missed my point right from the beginning and any expansion has
been deemed as evasive despite supporting comments by others. I'll chalk it
up to this being an anomaly and not your norm.
If you can cut the tenons in 30 minutes then in most cases it would be
cheaper and more time effecient. You can't get in your vehicle and
go anywere and back to buy supplies in 30 minutes. In addition you
don't have to deal with the fools on the road or in the stores.
Yep, and as long as we're talking "ifs" ... don't forget "if" you could
even find them to buy ... which you can't.
Sorta the main (but one of a few others) reason for making them
yourself, you reckon? ;)
LOL The only "patience" around here are apparently running "lose" from a
mental ward. <g>
No, "CUSTOM SIZED" loose tenons are NOT _available_ for sale on this
planet .... but maybe not for long. :)
But, that may be what is driving them mad ... that such a simple concept
can obviously be so confusing, eh?
On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:54:08 -0800 (PST), "Gramp's shop"
tenons) it either is or isn't going to meet my needs. I kinda look at this as
an expensive first step toward the Domino.
Just so you understand that it's a *really big* step from this to a
Domino. I'd equate that step from a Skilsaw compared to a cabinet saw.
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