JessEm Mortise mill

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On 2/2/13 1:14 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I would venture a guess that both time and material for this were already "paid for."
The wood was probably leftover cut-offs from ripping rough lumber to size. The time... all 30 minutes of it :-)... was probably "leftover" time from waiting for something to cure/dry or that magic period between work and a meal in which there's not enough time to start another step/procedure. We've certainly all had 30 minutes in "wife-time" that were spent looking for something to do while she takes "5 minutes" to put her face on before going out to dinner. :-)
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You're right about project cutoffs being used when possible.
What is being discounted in this little 'Tete a Tete' is the fact that correctly sizing mortise and tenon joints is dependent upon very specific parameters, both regarding material dimensions, and the job of the particular joint.
These traditional parameters are based on practices that have "stood the test of time", and are ignored at your own peril.
While the original Domino is quite adequate for most tasks, the above is the main reason why I did not rush to replace my Multi-Router with the original Domino.
To argue in favor of purchasing "standard" size loose tenons, versus taking the negligible time to make "custom sized", and without regard to time tested methods of properly sizing the joinery ... and to use the rationale that "time is money" for that argument, is simply an indication of a lack of experience in the operation.
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I think you do have to agree though, that between the Domino 500 and the new XL700, a large variety of tenon sizes are covered. I'd suggest to you that you could take double the time to make your specialized tenons and have even a better fit.
But, even you have a cut off time where you determine that it's not worth further time and effort. The phrase "time is money" is not as useless a rationale as your statement above would suggest.
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On 2/2/2013 7:42 PM, Dave wrote:

Huh?
Dave, what are you talking about? For the life of me, I can't see how your above can be remotely considered germane to my quote without a large leap in imagination/supposition?
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That response was before I found out you were talking about odd sized tenons. When I replied I thought you were making loose tenons comparably sized to regular Domino tenons.
There has to be a cut off point where it's cheaper time wise to buy the tenons instead of making them. After all, you do have other things to do besides just making loose tenons.
All of this is a moot point anyway. If you need some Domino sized tenons, you can invite your buddy over for dinner and ask him to bring some tenons with him. :)
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LMAO ... A coffee can, and coffee box, are just the thing:
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-STFL2vwmteA/UQ2eoPjGB0I/AAAAAAAARJ4/gFZpoHFQs_0/s2048/13,%205:17:36%20PM
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No, you are missing the point.
Once again ... I do custom work, I have the capability to dimension the tenon for maximum strength, I cut "custom sized" tenons, I have used that term repeatedly since my original post in this thread, I can't buy "custom sized" tenons at Rockler and refuse to use "standard, one size fits all to the possible detriment of the integrity of the project joinery.
You took it upon yourself to reply to my post flatly stating that this practice was a waste of time, and a "burning distraction", obviously without any experience to back it up.
You are totally wrong in that statement, and in your assumption, for that is what it is, an assumption, based on nothing but conjecture.
I'll ask you the same question asked of Dave ... Where does one buy "custom sized" tenons in order to forego this imagined waste of time and money of yours?
Let me hear a reply based on experience ... enough assumption and conjecture.
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"Swingman" wrote in message

I often wonder how threads on the rec spin out of control... There was nothing in my posts that should have gotten you all hot and bothered. The first one about "time" had an exclamation point no less! Thus there was no need for personal attacks about experience, skill, or anything else. That said, my experience and skills are adequate to have gleaned me a box full of woodworking awards from multiple shows and have kept me on the lecture/instructor schedule for the past decade or so. I've lost actual count of both... My experience as a management professor and project manager never let me stray far from cost/benefit analysis.
Being treasurer for the Northeastern Woodworkers Association's Mid-Hudson Chapter for about 9-10 years has afforded me the opportunity to see a lot of work, a lot of shops, and meet a lot of professional woodworkers (all kinds from local to the internationally famous), writers and editors. TV woodworkers too... Abram, Marks, Underhill--I originally met him while I was working at Colonial Williamsburg, VA when he was the master housewright. As such, I've got a pretty good idea how things work and fully appreciate that there are often myriad ways in which a task could be completed. Thus I was making an informed observation about time.
All that said, I generally use mortise and tenon and/or hand cut dovetails in my solid wood work. For the one off furniture and cabinet work I do there hasn't been a time where mortise and tenons were a problem. My solid wood casework and drawers are typically done with hand cut dovetails with some frame and panel pieces thrown in too. Splines, loose tenons, biscuits, nails/screws and glue show up in some works depending on the fineness of the work and the intended use.
I am reminded of a dinner discussion the Saturday evening of Woodworkers Showcase 2008 with Doug Stowe, Peter Korn, Wayne Barton and others. Chris Schwarz had made other plans for that evening that included drinking beer... ;~) During the discussion a comment was made by Peter that amateurs will continue to do the best work as professionals do not have time to do so and make a living. That theme permeates most of the discussions I have had with professional woodworkers... they need to get the job done as quickly, efficiently and workmanlike as possible in order to make a decent living. There are only a few professionals whom I know who work in the museum/gallery markets who command prices high enough to strive for perfection in their work--I wouldn't call any of them rich. The "production shops" (that do jobs like built ins and interior trim for hotels, banks, churches, hospitals, etc.) seem to be more acutely aware of the time costs than the others as 5-10 minutes per unit adds up to hours and even weeks of shop time on big jobs. This time cost is less visible in one off work but still impacts the income surplus at the end of the year.
John
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On 2/2/2013 7:31 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Easy ... do as you did: introduce pure conjecture into a discussion based on hands on experience and then unilaterally decree it a waste of time and a "burning distraction".

Despite all the horn tooting/name dropping, a simple question, asked of you regarding a position that _you_ alone took upon _yourself_ to interject into a conversation, remains totally ignored and unanswered.
Maybe this one is easier for you:
Just how many loose tenons does a "management professor" have to cut before he takes it upon himself to unilaterally decree it a waste of time and a "burning distraction"?
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In my world we discuss and debate ideas and solve problems... We spend some time discussing events themselves and pretty much no time talking about people. With the slide from ideas to personal attacks this thread itself has become a "time burning distraction." It warrants no further attention as you clearly missed my point right from the beginning and any expansion has been deemed as evasive despite supporting comments by others. I'll chalk it up to this being an anomaly and not your norm.
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On 2/3/2013 11:49 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

<snip of holier than thou BS>
And, you obviously do NOT answer civil questions, where an honest may be embarrassing to your untenable position on an issue.
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If you can cut the tenons in 30 minutes then in most cases it would be cheaper and more time effecient. You can't get in your vehicle and go anywere and back to buy supplies in 30 minutes. In addition you don't have to deal with the fools on the road or in the stores.
Mike M
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On 2/2/2013 7:07 PM, Mike M wrote:

Yep, and as long as we're talking "ifs" ... don't forget "if" you could even find them to buy ... which you can't.
Sorta the main (but one of a few others) reason for making them yourself, you reckon? ;)
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8-) If the size needed isn't available you have to be loosing your patients answering all our foolish comments.
Mike M
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On 2/3/2013 5:51 PM, Mike M wrote:

LOL The only "patience" around here are apparently running "lose" from a mental ward. <g>
No, "CUSTOM SIZED" loose tenons are NOT _available_ for sale on this planet .... but maybe not for long. :)
But, that may be what is driving them mad ... that such a simple concept can obviously be so confusing, eh?
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On 2/1/13 9:04 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I can't see that whole process taking more than 30 minutes.
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-MIKE-

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On 2/1/2013 11:23 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

See previous post re making custom tenons ... you hit the nail on the head.
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On 2/2/13 10:39 AM, Swingman wrote:

There ya go... I already replied to your previous post, before reading this one. Dare I say, "great minds?" :-)
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-MIKE-

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On 2/1/2013 3:54 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:

tenons) it either is or isn't going to meet my needs. I kinda look at this as an expensive first step toward the Domino.

Well Larry, after you play with it, we'll expect a full review. I'm not sure I need it, I have a mortiser, I have a router, but it is worth hearing about.
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:54:08 -0800 (PST), "Gramp's shop"

tenons) it either is or isn't going to meet my needs. I kinda look at this as an expensive first step toward the Domino.
Just so you understand that it's a *really big* step from this to a Domino. I'd equate that step from a Skilsaw compared to a cabinet saw.
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