"It's a poor workman who blames . . ."

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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:26:48 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote:

There's a continium there and each of us gets to decide where we fall on the continium.
Ain't freedom wonderful?
--RC You can tell a really good idea by the enemies it makes
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:44:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

I think it's sort of a catch 22 kinda thing... IMHO, power tools are more effective and last longer if you know how to do it by hand... the same as the fact/opinion that you are easier on a car if you've worked on them and know what happens when you use the accelerator or brake.. (unlike my wife, who thinks that they're on & off switches *g*) I also find that the more/better power tools that I get, and the better I get with them, the more I seem to enjoy the fitting and tinkering with hand tools... full circle? I hope not!!
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wrote:

Perhaps better to hope so. In your dotage, it won't matter if you fall asleep while cutting a board with a handsaw. You'll have the hand-skills needed by then to use the hand tools and still build good stuff for your grandkids.
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snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote in message (Mike Girouard)

Show me talent - I'll respect it. Put yourself in my face and tell me you're talented - you get shown the nearest window . . . closed or not.
FoggyTown "Cut to shape . . . pound to fit."
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Tom Watson wrote:

Yeah, but there are two sides to this coin. There are a LOT of completely worthless, dog shit tools in the world, both power and hand.
Go to Dollar Tree or Big Lots and stock up on tools, now go build me a Chippendale high boy.
A good craftman can make up for these deficiencies to a large extent, but you can't put a decorative edge on a piece of cherry with a hammer and an ice pick and have it come out looking like anything.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:28:34 -0500, Silvan

What the hell sort of trans-atlantic abomination is a "Chippendale high boy" ? Where do you find those? Iceland?
High boys, Chippendale or no, aren't found East of Massachusets.
--
Smert' spamionam

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Andy Dingley wrote:

Oh. OK. I know bupkis about all this Green and Stickely Chippen Farming Bliffleblather Deco stuff, as I have just demonstrated rather adroitly. Furniture is for people with big shops, big wood budgets, and houses with room inside to receive the results of same. I'm in the none of the above category, so I don't do, and haven't bothered to learn anything about furniture.
The point about the icepick and hammer was pretty stupid too, now that I think back.
My ultimate point is that I have seen a lot of tools too crappy to use for anything. Perhaps a good craftman would never find himself in possession of such things in the first place, but there's always a line somewhere between what you might like, and what you can afford. A good craftsman can make a mediocre blurfl perform better than a poor craftman can do with a Super Blurfl XL Plus, but the underlying assumption that tools are no excuse, and a chisel is a chisel is a chisel just annoys the hell out of me.
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:29:59 -0500, Silvan

Well mainly I use bits of old hacksaw blade. The first rule of making good stuff with nothing is to learn to make your own tools. If you can grind, heat-treat, and find a source of carbon steel, then you're sorted for making almost anything the 18th century could offer.
Making a frame saw from scratch isn't something I'd think about attempting, when I live in a world with cheap shops for bandsaw blade. But when I needed a veneer saw on a Sunday afternoon, I just sat down and filed one out of sheet. Didn't even take long to do.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

I'm with you up to the heat treating bit, unfortunately. One of these days...
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:26:40 -0500, Silvan

do you have a gas stove in your kitchen?
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:26:40 -0500, Silvan

Try a cheap propane torch and a couple of firebricks. Instant heat treat for < $10.
(and practice. Did I mention practice?)
--RC You can tell a really good idea by the enemies it makes
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On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:13:50 +0000, rcook5 wrote:

And making your own tools is fun. The trick to heat treating is to use a magnet. The pros can tell by color, or they have a pyrometer, whatever that is. Don't try the propane torch alone on anything bigger than a piece of hacksaw. Oh, and practice...
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad scientist com
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You obviously hold the "ancient masters" in high regard. And I will agree that many of them did striking work. But (just to pick one example we all know) Norm Abram makes handsome antique reproductions, which conform very well to the originals, with only a small amount of hand work. Most of his time is spent operating his extensive collection of power tools.
It is possible to do craftsman-like work with power tools. It just requires a different set of skills.
(snip)

(snip)>
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Tom Watson wrote

Chuck Hoffman wrote:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'll assume that you're not joking and really mean what you said about Norm. I've watched Norm, and while he does better than I do, he doesn't do all that well. He certainly isn't up to the quality of the "ancient masters". You might want to take a look at Tom's work before you make comparisons.
Dave in Fairfax
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--
'
"Dave in Fairfax" < snipped-for-privacy@fairfax.com> wrote in message
news: snipped-for-privacy@fairfax.com...
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Right!
I like the saying "There are few poorly made antiques"! <G>
Barry
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Look at some of pre-17th century survivors. Crude, ham-fisted, asymmetrical, awkward, unattractive are some of the adjectives that come to mind. They look like they were crafted by people that just didn't know the meaning of "square".

Why should woodworking be any different to any other of life's endeavors? Some few people are born prodogies and can do miraculous things with seemingly little or no effort in one or several areas. A few more are born with the almost insectile patience required to concentrate with the smallest focus until that piece of the whole is perfect then go on to the next piece and do the same. Yet a few more have the innovative skills to make something so completely new that no comparison with precursors is even possible.
The huge mass of the rest of us bodge and dick our way through as best as possible and are not too distressed if we even get close to, "Hey! That's not too bad!"
FoggyTown "Cut to shape . . . pound to fit."
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On 2 Dec 2004 13:16:18 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mike Girouard) wrote:

Michael , I absolutely loved the description of the patience needed to create the detailed piece. The hearkening to the insectile was masterful. Yet, it requires more.
Without the sense of the whole, your take on creativity becomes the slavish devotion to minutiae.
There is both one mind and two - the overmind tempers the creation of the obsessed mind, to the degree that they act in consort.
But the overmind must rule, lest it succumb to ritual.
Innovation is the natural result of attempted replication, and that is why it is a good exercise to re-create the best of what the world has to offer, based on your take on things.
I happen to revere a particular Goddard-Townsend secretary desk.
But, as an older man, there are things that I would change.
Innovation, in the sense that you have evoked, is really a re-imagining of the genre - and I would not choose to go there.
I'll settle for dovetailed intersections of the pigeonholes, and a change of finish, to something that doesn't take so much of the caretaker's budget of time or money.
I suppose it is a paean to evolution, rather than revolution.
Just my take on things, you know - not a knock.
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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wrote:

Speak for yourself, classical-ogee boy
"Gothic and Proud"
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On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:10:35 +0000, Andy Dingley

Visi- or Ostro- ?
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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