"It's a poor workman who blames . . ."

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Learning is one important attribute - "Value" is another. The ability to 'care' about the work and apply that care to this squirrelly piece of wood that, in one set of hands looks like a piece of trash with tearouts all over the place, but in another seems to literally flow into the piece.
I know of 'learning' machines, I don't know of any that 'care'. There are some that are governed by policies - policies set up by people. Policies that are expressed in some form sufficient to the task originally conceived but inadequately expressed and unable to be self-modifying enough to call it 'caring'. It is the self-modifying aspect that is a long way off (if ever) in machines - do you really want a machine to be self-policing? - Sounds like Terminator ('course he's governor now isn't he?). In people it's called free will...
TWS
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You're using a more narrow definition of 'skill'. I'm using it in the sense of 'ability to achieve a given result'.
What's happening is that the 'skill' is designed into the machine. It's not something it 'learns.' (Of course that also means that the machine is limited in what it can do, but that's another issue.)
--RC
Projects expand to fill the clamps available -- plus 20 percent
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wrote:

me
Maybe we should send them to a "skill center" (voc ed facility) to pick some up?
Guess not, until they could actually learn one.
I'll stick with AHD on this. skill (sk¹l) n. 1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.
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wrote:

to
is
some
I'm with George here. Machines have functions rather than skills.
"Function - The action for which a person or thing is particularly fitted or employed."
-j
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On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:45:34 GMT, Ba r r y

Agreed. So if you just want to make flat boards, go with the machine.
I'm expecting Ikea's new range of Chippendale chairs with great interest.
Sometimes you start with flat boards before doing something more interesting, power tools could be useful to even the most devout neander. After all, the 18th century had self-acting power tools for the simple tedious work - they were called apprentices. I see no benefit in ignoring useful power for stock preparation, but a router won't be replacing my moulders and scratch stocks any time soon.
--
Smert' spamionam

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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:50:06 +0000, Andy Dingley

The 18th Century had self-feeding gang rip saws, only they were water powered and reciprocating rather than circular and electric powered.
The physique of lumbermill apprentices before water power must have been a sight to behold from ripsawing or wedge splitting planks from logs.
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A friend of mine is irritated by the paintings that show Jesus as (in her words) "a skinny, wimpy-looking kind of guy". She says "He was a carpenter. They didn't have power tools two thousand years ago. He must've been buff!"
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles wrote:

I read an article once that estimated lumberjacks two hundred years ago, working in relative cold, cutting down trees with axes and saws for ten hours a day, probably burned something like 5,000 calories per day. Can you imagine the food they'd have to shovel down just to maintain their bodies?
And I get hungry just from walking to the donut box at work...
-BAT
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You ever see pictures of the chow halls in lumber camps?
Still a few around here who worked in 'em, and they say the food made a farmer's breakfast look like starvation rations. More carbs than protein, though, barring game.

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wrote:

There was a reason the cook was one of the most important people in a lumber camp. And why there are so many jokes about bad lumber camp cooks.
--RC

You can tell a really good idea by the enemies it makes
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:43:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

same with the cooks on cattle drives...
I was reading about the "real" cowboys in a book (chili recipes, actually *lol*) that said that the amount of calories burnt in a day was awesome... their favorite desert was beef fat with molasses on it... because their bodies crazed the fat that they were burning up so fast.. (still better than the Eskimos, who crave fat so bad in the winter that they eat blubber) I think I'll take that trip to the frig now.. *g*
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Why do you think Abe Lincoln was always portrayed as such a skinny drink of water? Making split rail fences qualifies. I've described on here before about cutting firewood on the farm before my Uncle got his first chainsaw. Felling with ax and 2 man crosscut, limbing with ax, cutting to 8' length with crosscut, splitting into fence post or firewood size wedges with wedge & sledgehammer, etc. Try *part* of the day in the woods like that, you were pretty dam hungry come supper time!
Re: Lumber camp calories. If you're ever up that way, visit the "Adirondack Museum" in Blue Water Lake, NY. Plan on most of a day. They had a video theater(mostly still shots) about logging in the Adirondacks and discussed the calories. Seems they also kept their own herd(flock, gaggle, group,?) of pigs, and fresh pork was a staple part of their diet.
Museum: Many displays of Adirondack life, as well as actual artifacts and displays; old horse drawn snowplows & snow packers from sleigh days, very early snowmobiles, Cedar strip canoes, early racing boats, etc. We had driven by some yrs. before visiting, and they had a full 25-30' sailboat under a glass dome. When we visited, it was no longer there, and they explained that the dome trapped the moisture so bad that the boat was dry rotting, so they had to remove it.
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
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http://www.ardice.com/Regional/North_America/United_States/New_York/Regions/Adirondacks /
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fvytyshx posts:
Adirondacks (I think) ad.
And your point is? I used to live in and around the Adirondacks, but that was pre-yuppie, so we weren't up on wine tasting. We just drank it if we liked the flavor, served it to someone else if we didn't.
Charlie Self "Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)
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On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:50:06 +0000, Andy Dingley

They also had water and beast of burden powered tools, like saws. You just had to go to the major metropolises to see them.
Barry
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This is what never fails to amaze me - at the mill shop I go to, they will make an elaborate custom door and jamb in about 5 days, give or take, using the best power equipment money can buy. How long would it have taken to make the same door, starting with rough boards, in the year 1830? There must be logs somewhere giving exact detail of tools, personnel and time frames. It would be very interesting to see.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (BUB 209) wrote in message

Maybe not all that much longer than your mill shop. Labor was a LOT cheaper 175 years ago - not to mention apprentices that got bupkis for 7 years. The shop could throw 5 or 7 men on one door - each one doing his "specialty" - where the modern shop probably uses only 2 or 3 men (if that)to knock out the same product. Also it IS true that practice develops speed. You're looking at hand-producing, say, a bead molding according to how YOU think YOU would do it. In 1830 there were guys who did nothing but moldings and could probably do in a day what would take you a month doing it his way.
FoggyTown "Cut to shape . . . pound to fit."
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On 30 Nov 2004 10:47:56 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mike Girouard) wrote:

Ah yes, apprentices. The 18th century equivalent of power tools.
--RC
Sleep? Isn't that a totally inadequate substitute for caffine?
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(Mike Girouard)

BIG SNIP

That's fair because your opinion didn't mean anything to me either.
If everyone had your burning quest for technological advancement we'd still be sitting in unheated caves wondering if rocks are edible.
FoggyTown "Cut to shape . . . pound to fit."
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On 1 Dec 2004 02:40:48 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mike Girouard) wrote:

and if everyone had your respect for talent and skill we'd all be living in plastic boxes and eating twinkies out of a tube....
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