"It's a poor workman who blames . . ."

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On 06 Dec 2004 14:28:55 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) calmly ranted:

Then how come I have a "Measure Once, Curse Twice" sign in my shop?

Right. How EVER did cavemen get along over a century ago? ;) (/editor humor)
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 09:22:20 -0800, Larry Jaques

Because: 1) Your momma didn't raise no stupid children? 2) You can learn from experience?
Pick one.
Seriously, I said the skill is increasingly being shifted into the machine. Not that it's completely there yet, or perhaps ever will be.
--RC

You can tell a really good idea by the enemies it makes
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snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

Self)
It's
However
I'd suggest a different perspective. Is the skill being shifted to the machine OR are we developing different needed to use the machines most efficiently? 21st century wrecker has problems using his electric planer that 19th century artiste never had using his. FoggyTown "Cut to shape . . . pound to fit."
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foggytown notes:

Because that "19th century artiste" was a trained joiner who would have punched someone's lights out if they called him an artiste?
Charlie Self "Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." Edgar Bergen, (Charlie McCarthy)
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On 07 Dec 2004 09:18:59 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

However, he would have smiled if you called his outfit "quite gay" at a holiday gathering. Nowadays, it's the other way around. <G>
Barry
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Barry responds:

How 'bout dem Gay 90s and WWI's Gay Paree?
Charlie Self "Vote: the instrument and symbol of a freeman's power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country." Ambrose Bierce
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Have you noticed the lyric change to "Deck The Halls?" It's now our "bright" apparel in the music supplied to schools.
Pressure from cross-dressers, I guess.

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I joke about this all the time, saying that when I get a little older and more curmudgeonly I will start my own campaign to take back the word "Gay". It used to be a perfectly good word until it was co-opted by a bunch of radicals, most of whom certainly aren't "gay! Most of them aren't even moderately happy!

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Doug Brown wrote:

Ever see a movie called "Tough Guys" with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas? If you haven't, look for it--there's a scene in there that I think you'll appreciate.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:43:11 -0600, "Doug Brown"

Insisting that people who are not like you are unhappy usually says a lot more about you than them.

More likely from one of our extremist radical Christian groups.
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Nope, self-important pinheads pick on them all the time. Because they're tolerant people, they let it go.
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Wel, my comment was an attempt at humour but that seems to have been lost. And I did not say anyone was unhappy. While I don't want to fous on semantics I think there is a difference between not being happy and being unhappy. Lastly, why do you assume that hey are unlike me?

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Quite true. However the learning curve tends to be a lot shorter today.
Consider the difference between forge welding and modern welding techniques. Modern welding is definitely a skill, but it takes less time to learn it and it is easier to produce consistent results. If you look at a lot of blacksmith-made stuff, you'll see that they went to considerable lengths to avoid welds in applications where failure could threaten life. For example eyes in hooks were usually punched rather than welded.
Or look at cutting dovetails. For all the complaining about how long it takes to learn to set up a dovetail jig, it's still faster than learning to cut dovetails of the same quality by hand.
--RC
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Those aren't better skills, those are better processes.
Tools allow the use of those processes which weren't available before. Blacksmiths didn't have high current sources to melt metal in the 1700's. Cabinet makers didn't have portable high speed motors and highspeed steel in the 1800's. They did have things like treadle lathes and did good work on them because they were skilled, but the machine didn't add skill, it justs us turn without having to pump with one leg at the same time.
-j
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Again, I'm defining skill as 'the ability to produce a result.' By that definition the skill is being transferred into the machine.

--RC
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--
'
< snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com> wrote in message
news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:30:00 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

I disagree - they did this mainly because punching is easier and quicker than welding, or because they knew (if didn't entirely understand) that it was stronger that way. It wasn't because there was an increased _risk_ if there was a failure at that point.
Forge welding of iron is reliable and the failure modes are benign in comparison to the sudden failures of modern welded steels. If it was going to fail, it's more likely to fail at a stress riser than at a competent weld.
As an example of design techniques for the late industrial smithing period, read Lillico
--
Smert' spamionam

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On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 03:01:54 +0000, Andy Dingley

Forge welds are susceptible to failures from inclusions left in the weld. Even an expert does this occasionally and sometimes it is impossible to determine nondestructively without modern equipment.
--RC
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--
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wrote:

Seriously, whenever you have a tool that can learn, come back and talk to me about its "skill," a learning/learned phenomenon. And self-adjusting is _not_ learning, because it has preset limits.
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