Is this an a-pawling idea?

[BoyntonStu]

Use another set of pawls on the infeed side to prevent kickback.

[Leon]

I think the only safe answer from anyone here is to suggest you get a conventional saw and not use your setup. We tend to try to suggest safe practices.

[BoyntonStu]

OK Conventional saw are perfectly safe and operators never experience kickback.

No need for improvement.

I got your drift.

[clare at snyder dot ontario do]

Set up your table saw CORRECTLY and it will never kick back, even with no splitter, no pawls, and NO SAFETY GUARDS.

Look up thesawshop.com Dave Wooland is THE table saw expert and a real nice guy. He can tell you how to set up ANY table saw (unless it is REAL CRAP) so it will cut perfectly and predictably every time - with NO KICKBACKS.

** Posted from **

[Don Fearn]

BoyntonStu opin'd thus:

Didn't you already ask that question? I seem to recall something like it, that was already answered. Lessee:

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From: "Edwin Pawlowski" Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

No, the kicking is done by the back part of the blade. Eliminate it by using a splitter, proper technique, and standing to the side just in case it happens anyway.

You use a push block/stick too, right? And never use the miter with wood against the fence.

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Yup. Looks like the same question. Didn't like the answer the first time??

-Don

[Dave Balderstone]

Yeah, I've seen Dave at the shows. He does a great demo, and sells a decent after market fence.

How much is he paying you?

I invite Dave, the next time he's in Saskatoon (which should be this summer) to accept a piece of wood of my choice to rip on his perfectly tuned saw without splitter, pawls or guards, and have the insurers of the venue allow him to rip it.

Ain't gonna happen.

Dave's a helluva showman, and a great pitchman for his fence, but let's be real here.

My name's real, Dave can look me up in the Saskatoon phone book, provide me with proof of insurance, and I'll be happy to bring a board for him to rip without splitter, pawls or guards.

djb

[J. Clarke]

And how exactly does "correct setup" keep a piece of reaction wood from clamping down on the blade?

[clare at snyder dot ontario do]

He's not paying me a cent. I've seen and used saws that were poorly set up. I've used saws that were properly set up. I've used the same saw both ways. NO COMPARISON. A poorly set up saw is dangerous no matter how you use it. A properly set up saw is dangerous if you are stupid in the way you use it, but infinitely less dangerous then the properly set up saw.

And I'm sure Dave will take you up on your offer if you contact him (easy enough to do)

He seems to enjoy a challenge!!

** Posted from **

[Joe]

Wrong! Change "will never" to "should never". I and I'm sure at least a few others here worked with wood under tension, usually wet, that will kick back without a kerf splitter sometimes even with a kerf splitter. I would agree that good dry stock doesn't kick back when rip-cut, cross-cut or angle-cut with a well tuned saw. I re-check my saw alignment because I normally do small precision angle cuts. I got injured when a rip-cut of wet cherry closed up after the kerf splitter and kicked-back. It did not close at the start of the cut, rather it closed up about a third of way after cutting through a knot that must have changed the grain direction. If you get hurt, believe me, you want to have all available safety devices and a safe work environment to challenge your insurance company.

Safety devices shouldn't give you a false sense of security but I see no reason to recommend to the public that they not use kerf splitters and safety guards. Do this with employees and you open the door to an OSHA/ CCOHS/worker's compensation lawsuit.

A few moments spent removing and re-installing the blade guard as needed as well as using kerf splitters, push sticks, feather boards and other safety devices is well worth the safety in the long run.

When you say "Dave Wooland is THE table saw expert and a real nice guy" are you implying that he's a hypocrite and is ripping people off by selling unneeded table saw safety devices on thesawshop.com website? I see zero clearance inserts, push blocks, feather boards, safety glasses and a table saw with kerf splitter and blade guard for sale on his site. I would hope that his site reflects his opinions on safety devices a little better than you. I also see that in his saw tune-up tips and other postings on the web nowhere does he advocate not using safety devices. On the contrary, he clearly states that tuning the table saw is for safety as well as precision.

Always use appropriate safety devices, tune and align your equipment before production use, learn and use safe cutting procedures and don't work with dangerous machinery while under the influence. Be extra careful when working around people that think safety is a waste of time and money.

[B A R R Y]

True!

I do use a shop made splitter in my zero clearance insert for ripping, though. Some wood can create a kerf that closes regardless of how well set up the saw is.

I never had a use for those silly pawls put on some factory splitters.

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** **

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[Leon]

No, you apparently do not get my drift. Conventional is "not" perfectly safe and your contraption is much less safe.

[dpb]

...

To think that is simply to ignore the possibilities.

--

[Swingman]

wrote

My, my ... you have effectively elevated the practice of destroying credibility in 25 words or less to heights rarely seen hereabouts.

But we do heartedly thank you for the advance warning that anything further you have to say can be _safely_ ignored ... no pun intended.

[BoyntonStu]

A reason as to why you believe that an infeed pawl is less safe would be reasonable.

Perhaps you can elaborate?

[Doug Miller]

Nonsense.

To make that claim have even a passing resemblance to the truth, it's necessary to add these few clauses at a minimum:

Set up your saw correctly ...

*and* never cut anything freehand *and* never use both the miter gauge and the rip fence as guides *and* always use stock that has been properly jointed *and* never rip boards with any internal stresses ...

Starting to get the picture yet?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

If you read my first reply, you'd already know that the infeed pawls are useless at best. They would probably get in the way also and would not allow you to pull the wood back once you reached a certain point and that would make them unsafe. Why don't you just want to believe your idea is not a good one?

[dpb]

Doug Miller wrote: ...

... and the most important one of all:

_never_, _ever_, make a human error or slip up or lose attention or get distracted, or ...

--

[BoyntonStu]

"They would probably get in the way". Not at all with my push stick.

"and would not allow you to pull the wood back once you reached a certain point and that would make them unsafe. " I don't get that. Are you saying that pulling stock back towards the infeed is safe?

How do you pull stock back that has gone beyond the outfeed pawls.

However, one can easily retract the infeed pawls should you wish to pull the stock back.

Cars have seat belts and airbags. Dual pawls should make kickback less likely and as an extra bonus they could be designed to be used as infeed hold downs.

[The Davenport's]

And you've asked and now you don't like the answer...go ahead and do whatever it is you want to do with as many or as few kick-back pawls as you want. The rest of us will stick with the usual set AFTER the cut, where it will do the best job.

And by the way, just why DID you ask this twice in less than 24 hours?

[Dave Balderstone]

And you claim that a correctly set-up saw will totally eliminate kickback.

You're a fool, sir. And a dangerous fool, at that.