Is glue safe for cedar plank on the BBQ?

[hylourgos]

I have some smaller pieces of scrap (aromatic) cedar that I'd like to glue up to make planks large enough for cooking fish on the grill. The way I typically use these planks is to line the bottom of the plank with foil, place the planked fish on the second level over medium heat of a gas grill (@ 350-400=BA inside the hood) for around 20 min. The plank never chars, but can discolor from the heat on the bottom. The planks are reusable for about 20 trips to the grill or so.

Can thoroughly cured glue contaminate the fish in any way? I was thinking of using polyurethane, just because I have some left over, but otherwise Titebond II.

Glue Chemists encouraged to reply.

Thanks, H

[Edwin Pawlowski]

You should not see any contamination as it is inert and non toxic when cured, but I don't know if the glues are good for the heat they will see.

[Lew Hodgett]

Ye gads, what an obvious troll, or at least I hope that is what it is.

Lew

[Michael Daly]

At room temperature, I wouldn't be too worried, but putting this in the BBQ is another story. Checking the MSDS of a one-part moisture- curing polyurethane glue (not necessarily the one you are using) indicates that the following can be given off:

"By high heat and fire: carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, traces of HCN, MDI vapors or aerosols."

Would you like fries with that?

I've never been too keen on the trendy idea of using cedar for BBQing anything. Sure - just throw it on the stuff with natural bug killer in it - it'll shore taste goood! I'll stick to using aromatic cedar for chests and bug-proof closet lining.

Mike

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Meaningless. The MSDS is for the uncured adhesive. Once cured, the properties are entirely different. There is no MSDS for the cured product and none is required.

[Mike O.]

I'd be just as concerned with what might be in the "aromatic cedar". I've lined some closets with the it and it has some kind of crystaline looking stuff all over it.

I've been to some nice restuarants that served fish grilled on cedar planks. They looked more like roof shingles to me.

Mike O.

[Wood Butcher]

I don't know the answer to your question, but... if it were me I'd skip the glue & not take any chances and only use what I know is ok. Options:

1. Tight fitting dowels and secure with nails/brads.
2. Battens and screws on the backside.
3. Drill holes to run wires thru edgewise.
4. Staple the ends, pinch dog style.
5. Sliding dovetails. I'm sure there are plenty of others but these should get you started.

Art

Can thoroughly cured glue contaminate the fish in any way? I was thinking of using polyurethane, just because I have some left over, but otherwise Titebond II.

Glue Chemists encouraged to reply.

Thanks, H

[Andy Dingley]

When heated, certainly. PU glue being the worst of the lot.

Personally I wouldn't glue it at all, I'd just dowel it. Most glues will lose strength anyway when heated, including PVA and hide.

[George Max]

I'd avoid the use of any adhesive. Use mechanical fastening methods only. I am thinking that cured adhesives, in a manner similar to plastics, will give up compounds you don't want to ingest when heated.

Also, I believe that the cedar planks you're thinking of for cooking fish or meat are Western Red Cedar, not aromatic.

[Michael Daly]

The physical properties change, but the chemical components are the same. How do they react to heat? - not certain, but I bet the combustion (and partial combustion) byproducts are probably not much different. Since the OP isn't intending to subject the cured adhesive to very high, complete combustion conditions, he's likely to produce a similar collection of byproducts.

Mike

[Fred]

I don't think I would want to eat fish the was cooked in a cedar chest. Maybe Western Red but not Eastern (Aromatic).

[hylourgos]

Wrong. But if the answer is so obvious to you, perhaps you'd care to share its rationale?

I won't hold my breath.

H.

[hylourgos]

Do you mean UNlikely?

Also, you wrote above: "I've never been too keen on the trendy idea of using cedar for BBQing anything. Sure - just throw it on the stuff with natural bug killer in it - it'll shore taste goood! I'll stick to using aromatic cedar for chests and bug-proof closet lining."

Using aromatic cedar for plank-fish cooking, although it may be considered a "trend" if you frequent haute cuisine places in the city, is hardly a novel idea--it's been done for centuries along the eastern coast.

Of course, maybe that's why there's so many crazy people down there....

Lots of edible things are natural bug repellants, such as citrus, but that hasn't kept most folks from enjoying it. Interesting question though (is aromatic cedar bad for you in this context), and funny that I hadn't considered that before the glue question.

Safety aside, however, I've never had anything remotely as good as cedar-planked fresh salmon. Just can't beat the taste.

Regards, H

[hylourgos]

No, aromatic is the way to go. Lot's of restaurants and suppliers will give you the Western, but I suspect it's because they don't know the difference and opt for the cheaper more readily accessible wood.

ANY wood can be used to "plank" cook fish. CEDAR-planked fish is only worthy of the distinction if aromatic is used. It imparts a flavor that is, IMO and others', stunning. Western Cedar might as well be any other bland wood. Eastern's not the only wood that gives off a distinct flavor to fish, but it's my favorite.

de gustibus non disputandum est?

H.

[Andrew Barss]

hylourgos wrote: : I have some smaller pieces of scrap (aromatic) cedar that I'd like to : glue up to make planks large enough for cooking fish on the grill. The : way I typically use these planks is to line the bottom of the plank : with foil, place the planked fish on the second level over medium heat : of a gas grill (@ 350-400? inside the hood) for around 20 min. The : plank never chars, but can discolor from the heat on the bottom. The : planks are reusable for about 20 trips to the grill or so.

: Can thoroughly cured glue contaminate the fish in any way? I was : thinking of using polyurethane, just because I have some left over, but : otherwise Titebond II.

: Glue Chemists encouraged to reply.

Forget the glue. Aromatic cedar is NOT the right stuff to use to emulate Pacific NW salmon planking, For that, you want western red or white cedar, which is a very different thing from eastern aromatic cedar.

I imagine fish cooked on closet-liner cedar would taste pretty awful.

-- Andy Barss

[amazed]

Having read all the responses to your question I'm surprised that no one from the northwest of North America has replied. That's were the American Indians have been using Alder and Cedar for plank cooking for a long time.. There are sources for food grade Western Red Cedar that is approved by USDA for plank cooking. I have had Salmon on Western Red Cedar and Trout on Alder. I would not use wood I bought down at the lumber yard and I would not use aromatic cedar for cooking or smoking. Its oils are too strong. I have never heard of any one using it for cooking. Western Red Cedar is what's used. As for glue. Why even go there. I don't care what the bottle says. Find another use for your scrap aromatic cedar. Some reading on the subject, I'm sure there is much more.

[Lew Hodgett]

Not sure what this means, but every recipe I ever seen that uses cedar plank specifies untreated cedar plank.

"Untreated" doesn't include chemical treatment of any kind including glue.

Any urethane product contains MDI and/or TDI and this includes foam used in furniture or poly adhesive.

MDI and TDI are both full hazmat chemicals requiring self contained air supply masks (an air bottle strapped on your back or equal) if are are near the stuff.

You also need full hazmat suits.

These are both very nasty chemicals that we supply instrumentation for tanks that manufacturers use to contain it.

You want cedar planking, then use untreated cedar shake shingles which while very pretty, are also a real fire hazard.

Best use for them is planked food, not roofs.

Now take your meds like a good boy and go back to sleep.

Lew

[some]

Having spent over 35 years working as a Chef, with 25 as a certified Executive Chef with stints in East, Southwest, Northwest with Doubletree, Sheraton, and Hilton. I think I know what woods are used for cooking and why. Only a fool would make a statement like "aromatic is the way to go" or "any wood can be used" The reason no one uses it has nothing to do with providers, its because Chefs like good reviews and don't like to kill people.There are reasons we only use certain woods for cutting boards one of which is imparting a bad taste. Just because you are using it and have found a few poor sods to agree with you means nothing. Just the fact you are posting and asking for advise about what effect heat will have on glue and cooking, speaks volumes to your culinary knowledge. Stick to woodworking I can only hope you know more about that.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Hmmm, I've never seen Norm in a hazmat suit when doing a glue up. Now, I don't doubt the chemicals are hazardous in raw form and full concentration, but what happens when they are cured? MSDS sheets are good for raw chemicals, but they are of little or no value once the chemical has been processed, combined, cured, dried, whatever.

Ever notice that once wood is fully oxidized in becomes fireproof?

[Lew Hodgett]

A valid question.

MDI/TDI based products are perfectly safe when applied properly and allowed to cure.

When these cured products are burned; however, new ball game.

If you doubt this, talk to a local firefighter about what happens when furniture foam starts burning.

At a minimum, you will get SOX, NOX, CO and a whole bunch of other nasty organic products of combustion, be it complete or incomplete.

Urethanes are nothing to screw around with, they can be very nasty.

Lew