That's the simplest, but I believe that most people would
define "productive" in this case as buying "for as little as
you can." Everyone loves the capitalist system, `xcept
when they're negatively affected.
Yawn. Tell me again how refusing to circumvent the bidding system
put in place by the bidding service is being "lazy"?
Actually, never mind. It seems that you and I have exactly _zero_ common
ground. You probably stain cherry.
I may be missing the point, but if so, I assure you that it is not intentional.
I believe the basis of our misalignment is our differing beliefs relative to the
nature of "sniped" bids. You seem to hold that there is some difference between
a "snipe" and a normal proxy bid placed in the closing seconds of an auction. My
contention is that there is absolutely no difference between the two.
If, just for the sake of argument, you temporarily accept my contention of there
being no difference, perhaps you will understand the reason for my asking about
the latest time a bid could be ethically placed.
On the other hand, if your contention is true - that a "snipe" bid is of the
form "xx cents more than the other guy" - then I whole-heartedly agree with most
of what you've said in this thread. In that scenario, I would hold "sniping" to
be unethical at best.
Wichita, KS USA
The difference is not what you think. One way advertises your presence. The
other doesn't. The bidding mechanism is the same. The reason sniping is
attractive is because some bidders get emotionally invested in their bids
and increase them beyond what they would rationally pay if they see that
someone else is bidding on it. Some folks are just competitive by nature and
that is why you see people paying more than market price. Sniping minimizes
this. Sniping also offers convenience.
So, what is the difference in your opinion, since you are claiming there is
Curious proof, definitely not very rigorous.
Suppose that Tom is correct and sniping software is simply placing a proxy
bid just before the auction ends. How is that proxy bid different is one a
person places just before the auction ends? The bid itself is not different.
However, that doesn't mean that the sniping software isn't useful. Some of
the potential benefits for using the sniping software could be:
(1) The person doesn't need to be online near the close of the auction.
(2) Automate bidding on multiple auctions, especially if they have
similar ending times.
(3) Suppose that there are multiple auctions for the same item of
interest, but you only want to get (or can afford one). Ideally, you want
to bid on one auction at a time (if you win, you stop; if you lose, you move
onto the next auction). Sniping software could automate this process.
It seems to be that sniping software could be useful if it automates placing
normal proxy bids, so it could exist and could be used even if its bids are
no different from the normal proxy bids.
That said, I agree that sniping (by software or manually placing last minute
bids) will be used to try to buy at a lower price by avoiding an emotional
bidding war. I have never used sniping software so I'm not sure if it does
anything more "devious" than what Tom contends (such as bidding just XX
amount over the highest bid), but I can see how it would be useful if it
simply automated the normal proxy bidding.
I mentioned earlier that *all* of my successful buys have been sniped.
Turns out that's not 100% true; I forgot about the few items that I
used "buy it now" on. It seems that anytime I enter an early bid, it
triggers a bidding war that runs the price up past where I would want
I've been studying the sales process in some depth (I'm actually
trying to make a living that way, so it's of vital interest to me to
understand what's going on), and the general consensus is that *all*
buying is emotionally motivated. You come up with justifications that
seem logical later.
I have definitely established that when I use emotional appeals, I
sell more insurance than when I try to use logical arguments. The
best results are when I dress up an emotional appeal to make it sound
logical. (nearly everybody needs, but nobody really wants, insurance)
Howard Lee Harkness
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://AffHC.HLHins.com
A big reason for sniping services is because bidders often get a win at
all costs mentality and bid more than they originally planned just to
"win" the item.
If I put in a bid with a few seconds left, a bidder manually bidding will
have a hard time putting in a higher bid in time.
If someone bids their max up front and it is higher than my max, then they
get the item and that is fine.
Even though it's been a while I don't think we need another thread
about this. I was just trying to inform OP about what's possible with
the software not debate the morality of sniping. With some of the
software you can set the time before the end of the auction the bid is
placed, though I'm not sure if you can set it back further than a
minute or so with any of them. You might, and then be able to take
advantage of the management of multiple auctions in a way that doesn't
bother your conscience.
However I find it humorous that in a thread about how ridiculous the
prices everything on ebay is selling for there is someone complaining
about the sellers getting ripped off. The system is imperfect, but it
still greatly favors the seller.
I never thought about bid shilling until I heard the piece on the news the
other day. Indeed, it's a little worrisome isn't it? But they only made
one bid, and they couldn't have known how much my maximum bid was unless
they had cracked eBay, right? I think I just was 51 cents more desperate
to win the thing.
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < email@example.com>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
People get rediculous on eBay. They get extremely competetive because there it is,
something they can actually "win" because they got the money. It is too wierd some-
times. I've seen a 9 1/2 Stanley go for around $100 in semi-poor, user condition and
then one in much nicer condition go for around $30. Just where does that "heat"
It's quite common to find telescopes going for more than retail on eBay. I'm
an amateur astronomer and keep watch on the stuff. Aside from the sheer junk
being offered--want a 525-power 2" paper weight?-- a Chinese company sells
its not-quite-sheer junk on eBay and AFAIK uses ONLY eBay to market. I'm
also told that a number of retailers and OEMs are bidding or selling under
OTOH, I just bought a used tail light assembly (don't ask) for 1/5 the price
|I can't for the life of me believe the bidding that goes on on ebay for lie
|nielsen tools. I'm now seeing planes going for more than LN sells them for
|on their website. Are people that stupid
Maybe this is why:
I've always known shilling was illegal, glad to see something being done about it.
OTOH, if someone bids "too much", well, is it really too much? Nobodies putting
a gun to their head and making them bid. If the item isn't worth what their
bidding then why are they bidding?
Maybe it's that I've been going to real auctions for twenty years that I think
people ought to take responsibility for their bidding, and that if one gets
caught in a frenzy, well, isn't that too bad.
I wish someone would frenzy on MY auctions . :(
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