Is A SawStop Table Saw Worth the Money

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"If" the device works correctly only 1 time, you could have an additional 100 false trips and the extra expense would still be well worth the extra cost. $200 per trip is an assumption. If you are using an inexpensive blade the trip is closer to $100 or less including the new cartridge. A majority of the triggers save thousands of dollars in medical costs. Most all that have reported false triggers have been compensated in some way by SawStop and have been assisted in determining a reason and remedy for the false trip.

Accidents happen whether you practice safety or not. NO ONE is 100% incapable of having an accident. To think otherwise is pretty naive.
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On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:45:00 GMT, "Leon"

You're going to buy an expensive saw and use a cheap blade? Um... hello?
I made my assumption using a WWII blade which is a pretty standard blade, if you want to throw a $10 Home Depot cheapie blade in your saw, more power to you.

But if you spend all your time quivering in fear that someday, you just might have an accident, why bother doing woodworking at all? Woodworking is an inherently dangerous hobby. You will get cut. You will smash your fingers with a hammer. You will get splinters. Most of these things are pretty unavoidable.
If you're that paranoid, you should take up knitting.
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You never know with some people, I use strictly Forrest.

I'm confused, is this a comment on the fact that no one is incapable of making mistakes except for you because you know what you are doing?

Not according to the way you do things.
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 15:42:56 -0500, "Leon"

No, I just don't think that people should rely on nanny safety equipment, they should learn how to be safe and use the safety equipment as a backup. Otherwise, it's all about evolution in action, the stupid get culled from the herd. If people have to be told not to lay on a running table saw because something bad might happen... something tells me these people deserve to be laying on running table saw blades, they're just too stupid to survive on their own.
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wrote:

What are you, 14, 15 maybe?
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Brian Henderson wrote:
...

...
At least one of the woodworking magazines has added that mantra to their inside cover page, apparently in response to the legal beagles and in the interest of political correctness. I tend to disagree not in principle but in level of it being an "ordinary" level of danger associated w/ the activity and not worthy of mention per se.
Re: the list of accidents, other than the splinter, I can't recall the last time one of the others has happened to me. Not that I'm somehow magic, but I do tend to be careful. Having hit myself w/ hammers in the past has taught me not to do that any longer.. :) I have a very strong aversion to _ever_ cutting myself again severely, and for that reason have very serious evaluations of how I try to carve/cut on stuff...I'm not a professional carver, though...
--
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Unfortunately, we live in a very sue-happy society where not only do you have to tell people to be safe, you have to do it in such a way that a brain-dead chihuahua could understand it.

I've never managed to cut anything off my body I didn't intend to, neither did my father in a lifetime of woodworking, neither did my uncle in a lifetime of woodworking. Why? Because we all learned that whirling metal blades of death meeting flesh is a bad thing. We learned how to work safely, we learned that if you do something that feels dangerous, chances are that doing it at all is wrong. You know something? That's what kept us all safe. Not having nanny-equipment that doesn't let us be stupid, but learning not to be stupid in the first place. That's really where I object to all this anti-stupidity equipment that has come along. It doesn't teach people to be safer, it teaches them that they can be idiots, the equipment will keep them from having any consequences to their stupidity.
Honestly, I think people need to suffer the consequences of their idiocy, otherwise how do you learn not to be an idiot?
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You are sooooooo naive. You talk about those people that need to suffer the consequences and yet you are headed right down that path and don't see it coming. You know the saying, you don't know enough to know that you don't know.
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Leon wrote:

Just curious....as a major (at least here) sawstop supporter as well as table saw victim why don't you have one? On another note if any table saw accident is possible is it as well inevitable? Rod
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Whether he actually owns one is mostly irrelevent in this case. As well, there can be other reasons why a proponent of Sawstop safety might not own one. Leon is arguing the benefits of the Sawstop in this case against Brian's "impossible for me to get hurt" responses. I fully support the safety features of the Sawstop myself, but don't own one. And since I know you're going why, I'll indulge you with the primary reason I don't own a Sawstop. I use a wheelchair and the Sawstop table surface is too high for me to use in as safe manner as I'd like.
However, that hasn't stopped me from seriously considering one. I've examined the Sawtop closely in person and inquired about the possibilility of cutting down the Sawstop cabinet to lower the table. But, the additional mechanical components needed for the safety features in the Sawstop make it impossible to lower the table. Other makes of cabinet tablesaws however, can be lowered without extensive mechanical modification and that *is* something that I'm actively pursuing.

inevitable?
Given enough time, yes it is inevitable. In the case of Brian Henderson possibly, possibly not, but his "impossible for me to get hurt" attitude makes him more vulnerable to accident. And the ironies of life have a way of biting one in the butt when they least expect it. Not that I'd want to see Brian or anyone else be hurt just to satisfy that irony, but his attitude certainly mandates a good scare on the tablesaw just to bring him down to reality.
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wrote:

No one has ever said it's impossible to get hurt, but the reason I haven't gotten hurt isn't because I've got the safety-equipment-from-hell, it's because I know how to work safely. Is it possible I might get seriously hurt someday? Sure, anything is possible. Am I going to be paranoid about it? Nope.
We see far too many people who rely on technology to keep them safe and just don't bother actually learning how to *BE* safe in the first place. That's the objection.
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Brian Henderson wrote: ...

I don't believe that's the case in any of the discussion here...
And, if you'll read Sawstop's literature, you'll note it specifically points out the technology does NOT prevent accidents, it merely limits the consequences of one...that can't be all bad.
--
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Which is why they originally wanted to require all saw manufacturers to license their technology, right? I'm not saying you can't buy a SawStop if you want, it's fine with me if you have that kind of money to throw around and want to feel safer, I just worry that feeling safer makes people less careful and less prone to practice safe techniques.
You should be relying on yourself, not on your tools, to keep yourself from being injured.
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Brian Henderson wrote:

I don't think that follows directly, no. Why they wanted manufacturers to license their product was they had a large investment in a product which they thought marketable and had an (initial) business plan that didn't include making the saw themselves.
Their technology was/is certainly clever, innovative, and successful in addressing a market niche, but that's required of almost any product to be successful.

It's not a zero-sum game, though. Again, to reiterate, Sawstop does nothing to _prevent_ an accident; in fact, an accident has to happen for it to have any effect (neglecting the Type II error). It will almost certainly mitigate the effects of that accident, however.
Safety is dependent on a combination of all the things that goes into the operation from the design and manufacture of the tool to the music blaring in the background. Operator attention and proper usage is surely a major factor but as others have noted, the unexpected is often the culprit.
And, as my final word, again from my experiences w/ accident analysis, I can't number the times I've heard the expression of "I've _always_ done it that way!" or "It seemed safe to me!". And, of course, those stories were told by those that survived to tell their tale... :( It is certainly fortunate that the most severe of woodworking incidents are not likely to be fatal.
--
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You do have a good point. If seatbelts and airbags were removed from cars, people would pay more attention to driving and the accident rate would plummet. For the few that do die, that is just "thinning the herd".
Think of the money to be saved by ditching head restraints, ABS, and collapsible steering columns. A section of 1" pip can to the same think, lots cheaper. People have just become to complacent.
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I'm surprised that no one hear has realized the solution. The expanded foam tablesaw blade. Easily fitable to any saw and would render it totally safe. What an idea. I could make millions.
wrote in message

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CW wrote:

Wishful thinking...Your financial windfall and then some would be swallowed up in lawsuits.......Do you realize what kind of "rug burn" you can get from a spinning wheel of expanded foam? Rod
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You had to post it... Some politician is probably already drafting a law! They can sell them next to the low flush toilets and V-chips.
Pssssst... wanna' buy a METAL saw blade?
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Now try to require that the entire tablesaw industry use your, and only your blades. Heck, they tried it with SawStop.
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Get started on the tooling; a four cavity would be nice. I have the machine time to make them.
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