inexpensive and workable hardwood

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Stephen M wrote:

Doesn't work that way in the Big Eight heirarchy of which "rec" is one. For a newsgroup to be established a charter has to be written, voted on, and accepted before the newsgroup can be established. News administrators are not obligated to honor the charter--some organizations do this as a matter of policy, others do not.
Unfortunately rec.woodworking was created pre-deja sometime in the mid-'80s (originally "net.rec.wood" I understand) and its charter appears to have gotten lost in the mists of time, so any reference to it at this point would appear moot.

--
--John
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There never was a charter.
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Dave Balderstone wrote:

Are you saying that from the viewpoint of someone who was present when the group was formed?
--
--John
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No, as someone who has researched it.
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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

Then what are you bellyaching about?

I see. So you are laboring under the misconception that someone appointed you netcop and charged you with the duty of reporting even the most minute violation of the newsgroup charter. Well, guess what. Nobody did. With regard to the post being a violation of the charter, is it? Do you have a link to or copy of the charter? If so, you would be doing the group as a whole a service if you would you be kind enough to post it as the original appears to have been lost. If not, then would you be kind enough to quit accusing people of infractions of a charter that you have not yourself read?

Since that would require that (a) the tool department manager of every Sears in the country actually knew enough to provide a polite, on-topic contribution, and (b) that he actually read the wreck that would probably be an improvement over the current situation. However I suspect that the Sears marketing department would consider this to be a waste of resources.
In any case, the practice in many newsgroups is to allow commercial posts provided they are not excessive--once a month per company is a common limitation. Absent a copy of the rec.woodworking charter I think it would be courteous to assume this limit.

Same.
Never happen. They'd have to hire someone in every store who actually knew how to read.
In any case, any of these scenarios would easily cross the SPAM threshold.

Do they? Do you have statistics on this?
A common exception, for obvous reasons, is for sale

When "potential" from this particular poster turns into "actual" then I'd worry about it.

--
--John
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Huh? Spam (Note that Hormel owns the trademark SPAM and has politely asked that we only use it (all caps) in reference to their product but they don't object to using spam (lower case) for unsolicited bulk email or frequently posted or widely posted UseNet articles. Since they are being good sports about it and have thus far only sued spammers for violating their trademark I encourage folks to honor that request. Most folks who use SPAM, incorrectly, for unsolicited bulk email or widely crossposted or frequently reposted UseNet articles just aren't aware of Hormel's position. Of course some folks are just pricks and won't cooperate but I digress.) woudl not be an issue in the scenario I suggested

Then it would be too late.
See also: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/wherefaq.html
--

FF

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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

Uh huh. Changed your tune when you found out that netcopping doesn't make you popular?

Are you really this ignorant?

What of it?
--
--John
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No. Google for 'propagation delay'.

Not I, See: http://www.spam.com/ci/ci_in.htm

You were asking for asistance in locating group charters. I provided a link to help you out. I don;t mind helping newbies though I daresay most are a bit more pleasant than yourself.
--

FF

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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

Yes, you.

If it was a link to anything having any relevance whatsoever to any topic discussed in this thread it might have value. As for being pleasant, when you quit behaving like a particularly obnoxious high school sophomore then maybe you will be deserving of courtesy. As it is your efforts are to pathetic to even be called trolling. More like looking at the fly-tying supplies in the tackle shop and dreaming.

--
--John
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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message

Fred, One obvious differrence. I am not a huge chain. I own a small business and actually care about my customers. I do not spend wads of money on advertising and pass the cost along to customers. If my customers aren't over satisfied with the treatment (both price and personal attention) I'm not happy. Do you call Sears, Lows, or Home Depot and get the owner on the phone? I have responded to other posts without adding my URl but this one was a direct question for a product I carry and I think the soft maple is a better alternative to the aspen..which I also carry. I've said enough and my daughter wants the pony saddled up, so I'm off. later, jana
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jana) wrote in message

Hello again, It's pretty lame of me to only show my defensive side. Thank you very much to those who wrote here or emailed me personally in support. I do appreciate it. Thanks again, Jana
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jana) wrote in message

I don't see how the size of your business or how you operated it would affect the number of commercial postings in a newsgraoup by other persons.
That said, no one died and left me in charge of moderating rec.woodworking. You opinon and mine don't matter.
The facts matter.
--

FF

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Have fun with the girl and the pony, and please feel free to advise us of your services when the context allows. Personally, I appreciate it.
djb
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I'm not inclined towards engaging in nor soliciting a big war here, but c'mon, Fred, there was nothing stealth or drive-by about this. Jana offered a solution (which happens to be IMHO a correct solution) to a query which, I also note, was seconded by several posters, and because she is in the biz, albeit a small biz (and for that matter, somewhere in the midwest if I also recall correctly) gave the poor guy an idea of the cost at her shop and as I recall even suggested he get it locally. Now, I have noticed Jana hanging out on the wreck for at least 2 years or so and has not abused the group. As the "Car Talk" guys say, "shameless commerce" occasionally occurs here, folks put tag lines on their posts for all sorts of stuff, and as long as you contribute to the exchange of info what's the big deal. Robin Lee is a good case in point, here's a guy who is running what I would call a pretty big business; he does not hawk his stuff in the group, but pays attention to what's going on, adds his 2 cents on topics and promises to follow up on gripes, etc., and he likely does this to keep track of the pulse of his customers needs, wants, issues, etc., and frankly, that's refreshing. His name alone is well known among denizens of the wreck, a celebrity of sorts (e.g., wouldn't we all want to own a woodworking tool company, get to help design planes, play with the inventory...)so would the simple use of his own name, rather than some nom de plume, constitute a "drive by" or "stealth" ad.... I think not. I for one have no worry that every manager of tool manufacturers or retailers of tools are going to take the time to pay attention to this newsgroup, contribute, and then tout their wares to the point that it is troublesome. If they do, then "plonk" them. If someone becomes offensive or brazen, I have no doubt that their efforts will backfire, as the regulars around here will drill them a new orifice (gee, should we use an auger, spade, brad point or forstner bit for that??) and those overly commercial types will realize their actions are counter-productive.
Jana, if you read this please know that your input here is appreciated and if you want to help someone out with prices or availablity, just like you did in this instance, its fine with me and I suggest fine with (to borrow a slightly tarnished Nixonian phrase) the silent majority of wreckers.
Mutt
snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net (Fred the Red Shirt) wrote in message

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mutt) wrote in message

That conforms to the definition of a stealth ad as I know it. E.g. a stealth ad in a newsgroup is an on-topic article with useful information, that includes a plug for a commercial product or service offered by the author of the article.
Whether you like it or hate it, let's at least be honest about what it is.
I do not see how the usefulness of the information or the popularity of the author has anything to do with whether or not it was a stealth ad.
Since Jana is a frequent contributor to the group, I'll agree that it is not a drive-by ad.
I also agree that the article was not spam.
I also agree that there is little or nothing to be gained by continuing this discussion, and it could rapidly erupt into a flame war. I perdict that lots of peopl will disagree with me on this last point...
--

FF

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No.
It the risk of sounding childish *you* already started it.

Yes.
The only thing I have to add is my "vote" to reassure jana his/her? contribution is appreciated. Your implication that her/his response was spam is unwarranted bashing in my book. That's just my opinion. You are entitled to yours. But it is my perogative to dissent in the interest of assuring jana that yours is a minority opinion and therefore encourage more quality posts.
-Steve
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Your accusation is unfounded. I said it was NOT spam.
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FF

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Jana I don't consider it a spam. Fact I appreciate it as I'm looking for a new wood source, my locals are not satiscaftory anymore and you can't always find everything with Google
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jana) wrote in message

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