In our fondest dreams ...

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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Oh, I think, "The system worked" has far eclipsed that.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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Which country are you living in??? I have seen nothing but crooks and morons for the last 40 years.
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There's no shortage of them, politics seems to have attracted that sort as far back as history goes, it didn't begin just forty years ago. However it remains that the crooks and morons being subject to dismissal is a valuable institution, one I wouldn't care to give up.
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On 12/30/2009 8:11 AM, Swingman wrote:

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion." ...Thomas Jefferson
Sorry, Swing, but I'm with Jefferson on this one - I'm more inclined to believe that the best thing we can do is to take all steps necessary to ensure a well-educated and well-informed electorate.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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wrote:

I think those steps should include ensuring that the ill-educated and uninformed do not participate in the election process _at all_. Those conditions are, after all, fairly readily cured -- and with education compulsory through the age of sixteen, and publicly funded, there's little excuse for not acquiring at least a minimal understanding of how our economic and political systems work.
Note "_at all_" in the above: an even more important consideration than preventing those who are ignorant of our economic and political systems from voting is preventing them from holding office!
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On 12/30/2009 2:45 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:

No problem, Morris, and I respect your opinion in particular.
My contention is still that it is a direct result of this (idealistic) concept that has, demonstrably and observably, insured the very _absence_ of a well-educated and well-informed electorate.
Looking around, it is difficult to surmise otherwise?
It is a sad state of affairs, IMO.
--
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2000 and 2004 support your view on this.
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Leon wrote:

But in the meanwhile we're stuck with the people we don't want. The system you propose would pretty much mean that an incumbent had a lifetime appointment.
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Like we have not been stuck with people we don't want already.. Because some one is not immediately elected does not mean that the person in office gets to stay there until he is replaced. He leaves office and the government maintains until some one is elected.
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Some democratic countries (including Australia, Belgium, Switzerland, Mexico, Argentina and Greece) have a similar requirement, and it seems to work quite well for them.
BTW, have you noticed how few actual Communist countries there are left?

All you have to do is deliberately spoil your ballot and you vote for nobody, or there could be a "None of the above" choice.
Mandatory voting would be a modest infringement on our liberty, but it would serve such a compelling public interest that IMO it would be worth it.
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The people or the government, seems to work well or what you have read?

Actually all you have to do is not vote at all.

Shortly behind that would be those people that make sure you vote they way they want you to.
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If voter turnout upward of 85% is a good thing (and I think it is) then I think mandatory voting works. Of course if you don't like the results of some elections and you'd rather certain people stayed home on election day then I see how you'd think it was a bad idea.

Sure, if you didn't mind the $1,000.00 fine applied to your property taxes (or whatever sanction is applied)--be my guest.

Has that happened in Australia, Belgium, Switzerland etc.? No? Then what are you moaning about?
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I was tininking more in terms of the countries that you left out. The middle east countires where voter participation is required. Remember Sadam?
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What public interest? If one is not willing to vote, they probably haven't the knowledge to make an informed vote. Lots of people choosing candidates by coin toss does no one any good. If there are only 50 people in the country that are willing to vote, then the election should be decided by the 50 that are concerned enough about the way the country is run.
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Which is better, for a voting populace: to be uninformed and vote or to be mis-informed and vote.
Where SHOULD one get their information?
Again: if you aren't reading source documents (or cross-referencing your sources against them, periodically, to verify the objectivity of the reporting), then ... you're just listening to what you want to hear: slice or hook ... whatever your stripe is.
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On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:11:19 -0500, the infamous "Larry C"

Can you blame them? I've only voted for one of the last 5 presidents, and that covers 7 terms, or 28 _years_! The rest (Clintoon, Dubya, Osama Bin Biden) got in despite my best voting each and every time. I've become extremely discouraged, but I still vote in every election I'm entitled. I'm saddened, but I can't blame them for thinking that their vote doesn't mean squat. In some ways, if everyone who was wishy-washy voted, more bad guys would win by promising more crap and, as usual, failing to deliver any of it. (See "Obama's gonna pay my rent/car payment/utilities" video.)
-- It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars. -- Garrison Keillor
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IMHO people don't vote because there is no one that they want to try to elect. Voting for someone that you don't want in office defeats the purpose, don't you think?
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No, people don't vote because they're too lazy, as is their right in any free state. Often they're too uninformed to have an educated opinion, so *SHOULDN'T* vote.

No, voting for the "lesser of evils" certainly doesn't defeat any purpose. You're never going to be 100% happy with another controlling your life. Less is better than more.
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Nice of you to presume the priviledge of deciding why other people do things. Too bad you are not as wise as you believe yourself to be. You might consider asking people who don't vote, why they don't. BTW - what is an educated opinion? One that matches yours?

It most certainly can defeat the purpose. This has been demonstrated time and time again, as Washington critters prove to be one and the same, regardles of their party affiliation or their promises.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@windstream.net
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wrote:

What a presumptuous fool you are! I said nothing about what people should believe or how they should vote, or even whether they should be allowed to vote. I do believe that perhaps they shouldn't vote if they haven't made some effort in understanding the issues. Most don't, so we end up with a mess like we have currently.

Nonsense. You propose that things can never be worse.
What an ass.
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