i need advice on how to proceed with my oak kitchen table

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I stripped and sanded my oak kitchen table top. My husband said it looked like I had over sanded the side. He thought perhaps the problem area might not show if I stained over it. It turned out poorly. I have not used the polyurethane yet. Should I go back and resand all of the sides? Can I do that? Is it necessary to redo the top? Just don't know what to do. Appreciate your advice. click to open the full size version of the image
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You need some oak edge banding.
How wide is that widest edge, 3/4" or 7/8"? Install (glue or iron on) what ever width you need to cover that widest edging. You might want to edge ba nd the whole edging, not just the areas you sanded too much. You've sanded to raw wood, so the banding will/should adhere well. If you get glue on, you may need clamps, to clamp it until the glue dries. Elastic or rubber b and type straps may be best for "clamping" along any curved profiles.
Home Depot has 3/4" wide edge banding. http://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-x-25-ft-Red-Oak-Real-Wood-Veneer-Edgeband ing-with-Hot-Melt-Adhesive-642297/100541135
This place has 7/8" edge banding. http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Veneer__Products/Edge__Banding/Ven eer__Edgebanding%3A__7%E2%81%848%22__x__10%27/
Sonny
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On 8/9/2013 8:38 PM, Sonny wrote:

Sonny that is wider than 3/4 or 7/8... she's going to need veneer.. Pressure sensitive adhesive backed would be best for her.
--
Jeff

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On Friday, August 9, 2013 8:54:23 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:

I should have looked at all the pics. How about 2"? https://www.google.com/search?q=2%22+oak+edge+banding&oq=2%22+oak+edge+banding&gs_l=serp.12..0i30j0i8i30.25797.26656.0.29391.4.4.0.0.0.0.547.859.3-1j0j1.2.0....0...1c.1.24.serp..2.2.859.ui9YoBvuXfU
Sonny
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On 8/9/2013 7:44 PM, Karen wrote:

Yes you over sanded it, you went through the veneer to the ply. At this point you can not fix the veneer.
You could go to a store like Woodcraft or Rockler and by veneer that is self stick and apply it over... But you will first have to strip that area again since it will be oily (stain) and won't stick as well.
Your other choice is to paint over the apron area. You would use zinsser seal coat shellac to seal before painting, or Zinsser bin primer. Then paint the apron...
--
Jeff

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wrote in message

The previous posters feel that your table - or, at least the apron - is oak veneer over plywood or other and that you sanded through the thin veneer exposing the "other". I don't. The top appears to be solid oak and if the table was veneered, that would be the place to use it. Nothing looks like veneer. ___________________
To me, it looks like you have two problems with the apron:
1. In some places you did not remove all of the previous finish. There are various areas where it looks like that; one in particular is the large dark blob just to the left of the apron joint. When you stained, the raw wood accepted the stain differently than where there was still finish which is why it looks patchy. However, one would think that areas with old finish would not accept stain as well; was the old finish dark?
2. You sanded the bejeezus out of the apron at the right side of the joint. What in the world did you use? And why sand vertically? ____________________
There is no problem fixing the apron (the top looks fine). Here's what I would do...
1. If at all possible, remove the top from the apron. There are probably a few clips or screws on the underside holding it on. Removing it would make working on the apron much easier.
2. Get yourself a "card scraper". Those are a thin piece of steel about the size of a postcard. One uses them to scrape. Scraping removes wood much faster than sanding. Here is a link to one with all ready prepared edges... (Amazon.com product link shortened)
3. Use the scraper on the area(s) with the really deep scratches. Lay the edge of the scraper on the wood, tilt it toward you about 30 degrees and pull it toward you. If it doesn't scrape up some wood, apply a bit more pressure. It wouldn't hurt to practice on something else til you get the hang of it.
Once you are able to use it, start scraping. Resist the desire to dig at the sceatches, scrape the full height of the apron and make each stroke a bit longer; you want to feather out the bad area, not make a hole.
4. After the horrid scratches are removed, sand the entire apron; generally, people underestimate the amount of sanding they need to do. I'd probably start with 120 paper. After sanding thoroughly I'd slightly dampen the wood, just wipe it with a damp rag; what I'm looking for are areas that don't wet out...those areas still have old finish on them. Depending on the size of old finish areas I would either sand some more or I'd use paint remover and a tooth brush to get it off. Oak has very deep grain and it can take a ton of sanding to remove finish from it; the reason I didn't suggest using a chemical stripper first is because it doesn't look like you have all that much old finish left.
5. Once scratches and old finish are gone and you have thoroughly sanded, sand again with a finer grit. If I used 120 first I would finish with 180. The purpose of the finer grit is to remove the scratches left by the coarser paper. Some would sand again with finer and again with still finer. I wouldn't. To me, 180 is plenty fine enough on an oak apron.
6. Stain (after removing sanding dust...a vacuum followed by wiping with a microfiber rag does a good job)
7. Varnish ______________________
A word about sanding...
The round, ROS (random orbit sander) machines have become popular. They do a good job but I still prefer the 1/4 sheet sanders. Slower but IMO more controllable. Nothing wrong with hand sanding either...a piece of sand paper wrapped around a small (dry) kitchen sponge works well (but slowly). Regardless of what you use, don't try to "dig" with edge or corner.
--

dadiOH
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On 8/9/2013 6:44 PM, Karen wrote:

When you pull the table apart to put the leaf in, what do the ends/edges of the wood look like where the butt up against each other.
It appears that you have sanded through the outer veneer on the skirt/apron.
Probably the easiest fix is to hide it, paint it a complimentary color, black even.
Is the table top even wood or is it Formica? It appears to have no wear compared to the wood sides.
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On 8/9/2013 6:44 PM, Karen wrote:

Your only options on the apron are as others have said -- either just accept the inevitable and color it a contrasting color w/ solid dye or paint or apply a new veneer over it.
<http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page 30&site=ROCKLER> is a 2-3/8" x 25-ft roll -- not sure if that'll be quite wide enough or not but if not you're about to the full 2x8 sheets as I'm not sure you'll find anything much wider...
Clearly by the last picture the top and the edge mould bead around the top are separate--the grain is lengthwise on the mould but end on the top facing the camera. From that picture the top looks like it could even be laminate but may just be light/reflection as the first picture doesn't seem so disparate as that last.
To do anything to the apron you need to strip the finish back down and even if paint will have to use a grain filler to try to mask the difference in texture owing to the substrate and the remaining veneer.
'Tis a pickle and there's no easy out, unfortunately. If'fen 'twere mine and I didn't mind the change to a solid apron color, I'd probably first try to strip and further sand to near bare wood, use the filler and then try a water-based dye of dark hue--brown/black/maybe even very dark-tinted red depending on the rest of the setting in the room. If it doesn't cover entirely, you can then still either paint over it or even use the veneer as escape routes.
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Why does everyone think the apron is veneer? Sure doesn't look like it to me. Even in the area that is so bad with the vertical scratches. Look at the bottom edge of the apron in the various pictures...look at the dings and gouges. There is even one area where it looks like a sizeable piece has splintered out. If that apron is veneered, it is the thickest veneer I have ever seen.
You are correct in saying the top and edge mold are separate pieces. The edge mold might even be part of the apron. Doubt it but could be.
As an aside, I wonder why her pictures are all dated 9 1/2 years ago. Her camera date is messed up? She has been working on it that long? We are seeing old pix that no longer represent things as they are now?
--

dadiOH
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On 8/10/2013 1:55 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Notice that the grain goes up and down 90 degrees in this picture where she sanded too deeply.

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wrote in message

Could be, I took them to be massive sanding scratches since they extend into areas where there is clearly oak.
--

dadiOH
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On 8/10/2013 2:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:

I considered that but I think the streaks would have extended into the undamaged top veneer also and the scratch marks would have been more equal in length. These appear to be random lengths like wood grain.
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On 8/10/2013 3:22 PM, Leon wrote:

That's the pic that made my determination about the substrate. But in dadiOh's defense, it might be very coarse sandpaper scratches.. but I'm betting its a ply substrate.
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I really want to say you are indeed correct, but I simply can't determine from the photos whether the apron is veneered or not. The wood on the curved apron with no finish at all could well be oak, but it also has that "Luan look" of substrate used in curved, factory made pieces, although the underlying grain seems to match for the most part, which tends to bear out your contention?
That said, and assuming it is factory made, it would be extraordinarily rare to see curved, solid oak on a piece of factory made furniture in the last century, or longer, so I keep wishing I could get up close, and hands on with it to really tell for sure.
--
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wrote:

That's really the only way to tell.
If solid, I wouldn't expect it to be sawn; rather, kerfed and bent. Do manufacturers do that?
--

dadiOH
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On 8/10/2013 1:55 PM, dadiOH wrote:

'Cuz clearly the orientation of vertical grain vis a vis the apron veneer is the substrate ply. There's no way, now how, she could have gotten that kind of scratch pattern vertically (at least w/o having removed the top which I'd say is highly unlikely (as in it didn't) to have happened).
#14 is unequivocal -- you can the gradual thickness of the remaining veneer gradually obscure the substrate grain. You can even see from the stain absorption to the right where the thickness remaining is so little that while the grain still shows horizontally, there's insufficient actual material left but what the stain absorbed into the substrate and darkened the end result.

Can't be since the apron is a veneered piece...plus there's no way practical way (as in production factory-produced) they're going to do that out of a solid piece--it would have to have been glued up and circularly shaped to get the round profile--if the top bead were intact w/ it as solid piece it's far too thick to have bent.

Probably like me--I don't use the camera frequently enough but what when I go to get it again it's completely discharged and I'm then in enough of a hurry that I don't bother to go thru the pita steps to reset it...
--




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"dpb" wrote:

Like you, I'm an infrequent camera user.
After draining two (2) sets of lithium batteries without taking any pictures, I now open the battery case when storing the camera.
Resetting the date & time stamp is a small price to pay.
Lew
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replying to dadiOH , Karen wrote:

The date on my camera is always messed up. I keep pushing the wrong buttons on it. I am going to take your advice. From what I can tell my table it is oak. When I bought it many years ago they told me it was as well. I did just start working on the table. It has been through wear and tear with children and grandchildren. Thank you for all your help. Karen
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Before you do anything, pull the leaves of the table apart. Look at the newly exposed edge of the molding that goes around the table top; now look at that same edge on the apron. Do they look alike? Look also at the back of the apron. Does it look like the front of it?
If yes to both, the apron is solid oak and you can sand away with relative impunity. If no to either, take more photos, post them and report back.
--

dadiOH
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On 8/11/2013 2:17 PM, dadiOH wrote: ...

There's absolutely _NO_ chance the apron is solid oak--she's already thru to the substrate in several places.
--


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