I don't get it, why is metric better?

[Jack]

I describe it as the highest standard of living with the least amount of government control.

[Scott Lurndal]

non sequitur. John's point was that the fuel cost isn't the sole cost of coal plant operations. On site storage, fly-ash capture and disposal, bottom-ash, SO2 scrubbers, et. alia.

[Leon]

We are sinking because we are trying to copy Europe.

[graham]

Define successful! Graham

[dpb]

No, but it demonstrates that it isn't a foregone conclusion that operational costs are necessarily worse, either...since coal is being burned at plants designed for it, the handling costs have already been amortized into the plant design/construction and so while they're there, it's not like it's a new, added cost.

And, of course, to replace existing generation requires that one must either convert an existing boiler or build a new plant, either of which is obviously nonzero cost.

I've nothing against a utility choosing NG if it works for them; only that I think the current NG glut is not going to last and whereas there really isn't too much application for coal (some but not as much) other than for baseload central-station generation, why not use the fuel source most suitable rather than waste one that has higher alternate use values that are owing to that it is most convenient for residential heat, etc., etc., etc., ... Think what one could to for homeowners in the far NE on heating costs if got it much more widely distributed up there than is currently and they could get off fuel oil, for example.

And, of course, John's viewpoint is colored somewhat because he's "in the oil patch" so the solution to everything is oil. I'm more of a pragmatist from the utility end looking to continue to provide power to the grid _given my current generation mix_ going forward and wishing the powers-that-be would let me go at it in what seems the most efficient and cost-effective manner rather than mandating this and that and something else.

Not to mention that "in a former life" I spent several years selling/supporting a line of online coal analyzers to mines, prep plants and utilities to monitor coal quality and control various processes and have seen firsthand the devastation to the economic welfare of the coal country caused by current policy. That's a very high cost to pay that isn't being factored in by much of anybody.

[Leon]

Actually I believe it is the size opening along with the ability of the glass bottle to stay cold a little longer than a plastic bottle.

[dpb]

On 08/08/2016 9:55 PM, Puckdropper wrote: ...

...

That's what the significant (wouldn't say "vast" :) ) majority who took the double-blind taste tests concluded. Did this as a project inside a graduate statistics class years ago where there was a year-end class project for various teams within the class. We all had a team to design/conduct an experiment using class concepts and all the rest of the class were required to be the subjects for each others' teams. Actually was a lot of fun... :)

Anyway our team did the fructose/vis a vis sugar test, another did the Coke/Pepsi. The sugar/corn syrup fraction was statistically indistinguishable from 50:50; no different than coin flip overall. Coke/Pepsi fared a little better; it was just over 60:40 correct iirc; I've personally always been able to tell those two apart and am a devout Pepsi preferer over Coke (altho as I've gotten older I've gotten to where I rarely drink any soda any longer; we basically don't buy it at all anymore).

Just a side note; nothing of any significance other than it's almost

100F out and I've come inside and am passing time while avoiding office work should be doing...:)

[krw]

Except that I'm not.

[krw]

Why wouldn't the powerful want to be royalty?

[krw]

Another relativist raises its ugly head.

[krw]

Those are not different measures. The reason the standard of living is higher is _because_ there is (or was) less government control.

[graham]

It's pretty obvious that you haven't travelled much outside the USA.

[krw]

[clare]

Some of the countries with the lowest standard of living have virtually no government control - and in many cases virtually no government - PERIOD.

[Martin Eastburn]

Remember the steel cans ? Before Al. The Steel ones would die after a while (shelf life) as the acid would find a break in the coated ones. Dr. Pepper tasted better with extra iron.

I was overseas and with 6 weeks on a ship to our dock and maybe a month of waiting in the storehouse before coming...

The steel would start to leak. So policy came about that we only bought what we could drink in xxx days. Ship people to verify them and return (Ha Ha ) leaky Cans. I suspect not for the drink, to to see the process error or where the leak cam from.

Al was much better, different taste. Then there was Al coated. That changed the taste again.

I've noticed a number of drinks that were in glass are now in plastic. Pure glass is expensive. Clean pure sand...

Mart> >> dpb wrote >>> ...

[Jack]

They would, ergo the need for our constitution, which attempts to divide the centralized governments power into 3 equal branches, all controlled ultimately by the individual. It's not an easy task, as can be seen by it's corruption over the past 50 years or so by the uniting of our dimwit politicians with the dimwit media, aka, the propaganda arm of the democratic party.

[Markem]

But you can not recycle plastic drink bottles for making more drink bottles. So we make carpet fiber out of them primarily. Glass, aluminum not a problem to refit into the production cycle. Now given that Pepsico is looking for at a .001 cent per unit to add to the profit line as a good thing, plastic most be a lot cheaper.

Anyone else remeber the two liter bombs Pepsico made?

[clare]

You forgot the dimwitted citizenry (voters)

[J. Clarke]

So move to some politically correct workers' paradise and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[krw]

We don't need no steenkin' Constitution. It's a living, breathing, document, no?

This sort of crap wouldn't be possible without the dimwit populace.