I did a bad ting George

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See my response to your other post.
Think yanking a tablecloth off a fully set table.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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wrote:

Besides if you have the blade guard on, the chances of a kickback is less and if you're pulling from the back, the worse is you hands smashing into the blade guard. I don't want to push the piece into the blade guard since I don't have a clear vision under the guard. I guess we are assuming most of us don't use blade gards which includes me as well.
I've been ripping long narrow (1/4" or less) this morning and pulling from the back - seems to me it's safer to pull from the back than push into the blade with only 1/4" or less clearance. But I could be wrong but lucky for 25 years.
As far as pulling from the back I see contractors do that all the time even see them doing it on the home improvement shows. For long pieces I don't think I've seen a contractor pushing it all the way and a some point he is going to go around and pull it - it just seem like a natural process but again could be wrong technique. I wonder has anyone seen Norm pulling from the back? He doesn't use a blade guard either.
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Fred wrote:

One of the FEW kickbacks I've had on my Unisaw came within the first day or two of firing it up. The guard's plastic shield rested on the workpiece at an angle due to the narrowness of the piece and forced it to twist, resulting in a horrendous kickback. Right after that incident, after I evaluated why it happened, I removed the offending part. I rarely (not NEVER; just RARELY) use a splitter either. I can see where the blade is, and I keep my precious fingers WELL away from it. I use push blocks and push sticks.
Good technique prevents kickbacks except for the case of relieved tension in a board that jambs it between the fence and blade.
I'm not suggestion that YOU go sans guard. Just reporting how I prefer to run MY TS.
YMMV.
Dave
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Have seen him free hand crosscut. No guard or splitter.

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nospambob wrote:

There is a semi-klutzy neighbor a few doors down that sets up his TS on the sidewalk and does free-hand crosscuts during remodeling chores. I shudder when I've watched him, as I know he does it out of ignorance; not practice. I gently suggested he avoid cutting w/o the miter gauge--my words fell on deaf ears.
I'm a "no guard" kinda guy, though. took mine off after the first nasty incident due solely to the guard causing a kickback.
Dave
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wrote:

He's never had a guard or splitter on the saw (nor do 98% of wreckers), but please cite the episode of The New Yankee Workshop in which you saw him free hand crosscut.
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LRod

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wrote:

I'd be hesitant to do this with a short board, but I do it all the time with longer pieces of wood.
-j
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I don't think anyone suggested this with a short board. I certainly didn't and wouldn't.
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LRod

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I was doing this with some pine I was ripping down. When I got to the core the wood was quite weak. The saw grabbed it and shot it across the room. Wow. I was surprised. But then again I was on the other side so my heart was hardly beating any faster. It did NOT suck me into the saw.
This discussion is silly. People pull wood through tablesaws all the time. It is no less safe than pushing it.
-j
wrote:

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mogura wrote:

WRONG! Pulling with your hands is more dangerous than PUSHING with a pushstick.
Dave
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WRONG! To quote someone I read. When pulling you are utterly out of the line of fire of a kickback. When pushing you are in the line of fire of a kickback. That fact alone makes pulling less dangerous than pushing.
But as someone else said, this whole discussion is silly. It's just like the grounding in the DC system. Someone somewhere came up with the idea that pulling is dangerous and has decided to trot out the boogeyman in this chicken little conversation and everyone is jumping on it.
For one thing, no one has suggested pulling stock through is the standard modus operandi for all table saw operations. It is appropriate in a tiny, specialized arena of action that isn't easily accommodated in any other way. In fact, it is especially appropriate because the alternative is clearly dangerous.
Geez, guys, stop making up danger. There's plenty of real danger to pontificate about. You're as bad as the people on one of the other woodworking fora who got all worked up about someone using their calipers on a piece of wood on a lathe while it was turning.
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LRod

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LRod wrote:

I doubt you are taking into account how your arms would move during the split second of shock you would feel when there is an explosive kickback--the sudden noise and movement could cause you to involuntarily move your hand into a dangerous spot--namely the blade. THAT'S why I continue to insist that dragging a board through from the rear isn't such a hot idea. Obviously we disagree on this point... :)
Dave
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Bay Area David wrote:

the danger reflex is to pull your hands in close to your body. if you are in front of the saw reaching over the blade, that would put your hands through the blade. if you are behind the saw, pulling a rip through, the danger reflex moves your hands away from the blade.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...

I've got a pair of the anti-kickback wheels on my rip fence. They hold the board in place while I walk around to pull it through. No way is that board going to pull my hand into the blade, the wheels only allow about 1/4" of backward movement.
And since they hold the board down and against the fence, "kickback" is just about impossible - "pushback" is as bad as it gets, and as I said,that's limited to about 1/4".
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lgb wrote:

I once considered those, but I do too many narrow ripping operations for a push stick to clear the wheels. Otherwise they look like an effective safety addition to a TS.
Dave
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snipped-for-privacy@invalid.com says...

Mine just clamp onto the rip fence, so it's fairly easy to remove them when required. A lot of times I just flip them up.
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Just to add fuel to the fire -- has anyone who experienced kickback while using a push stick ever had the pushstick propelled at them? I have. When I first got my shaper, I made the mistake while testing one of the profile bits of having the wood with fingerboards holding the piece against the fence laterally,but not vertically. I was using a pushstick to guide the piece, but somehow managed to push just slightly off such that the wood twisted a bit upward while moving through the cutter. The twist caused a kickback event -- by design, I was not in the line of fire, but the kickback pushed the push stick into my arm and caused a fairly nasty gash. Sooo, just because you are using a push-stick don't think that you have eliminated all possibilities for injury to yourself.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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RayV wrote:

45 seems a bit steep for a french cleat. it's enough that the cabinet is trying to wedge the cleat off of the wall. I generally go more like 20 or 30 degrees. you really just need to keep the cabinet from shifting forward off of the cleat.

sounds right so far.

as long as your featherboards are set up right, this is just fine. it's a method I use with lots of stationary machinery, not just the table saw.
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<snippage>
A breath of fresh air, succinct and well stated! Tom (who also is guilty of pulling his piece(s) occasionally {Don't even go there} Tom
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Seems like the consensus, if there is one, is this:
"If it feels safe to you, then it IS safe"
I didn't feel safe making the cut the way I did, so I guess I will need to figure out a better way next time. For the record, it wasn't pulling the piece from the back that didn't feel right. I have pulled wood through numerous times before without feeling uncomfortable. It also wasn't ripping a board at 45d that didn't feel right. I have done this before with shorter but wider boards.
It was the combination of everything that didn't feel right: Feather board close to blade Narrow board I couldn't use a push stick on Angled rip cut Board didn't hang off the edge of my outfeed table before I had to pull it
So, next time I will have to do it differently so I feel safe.
"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King
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