I did a bad ting George

Page 2 of 4  

Donnie Vazquez wrote:

according to that post you were pushing the board when that happened. this thread is about going around to the back of the saw and pulling. different animal.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
bridger wrote:

No, the fingers were BEHIND the blade. No matter that his other hand was pushing. so what. the fact is the hand behind the blade was drawn into the blade.
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Clearly you do not comprehend the mechanics of the incident.
OP was standing in front of the saw (normal position). He was pushing a large block of wood through with one hand. He reached up and pushed the far end of the wood DOWN past the blade. Then the kickback occured. Regardless of how he wrote the description it is clear that the far hand DROPPED onto the blade rather than was pulled, OR the momentum of his pushing hand being pushed back along with his body drew the other hand back. The wood did not pull his hand back. That defies physics and logic.
Besides, that is NOT the operation we're discussing. We're discussing standing behind the saw, pulling on a piece of wood. Try your own SAFE experiment. Take a piece of wood; 1x3 would be typical for the operation being discussed, but suit yourself. Grab it with one hand as if you were pulling it through saw (that means no death grip) and have SWMBO or #1 kid suddenly yank the other end (just like a kickback would). I defy you to keep a grip, much less be pulled toward him/her.
Report the results to us. You can type them yourself.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
LRod wrote:
snip

You go first. :)
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I may be sorry I jumped in here... but here goes.
He wasn't suggesting you use a saw, just another person . You hold the board, someone else pulls it out of your hands.
No one around? <GD&R> Tom
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
LRod wrote:

Wrong, I was pushing down lightly with my left hand on the back of the board behind the blade, while pushing with my right hand. The kickback most definitely pulled my left hand back through the blade. Not down on top. Physics and logic aside, that's what happened, and it all happened in the blink of an eye.
--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:02:31 -0400, Donnie Vazquez

Nevertheless, what you were doing and what the OP was doing are two entirely different operations. I stand by my assertion that it is not possible for one's hand(s) to be pulled into the blade from a kickback while pulling the work through from the back of the saw, your experience under completely circumstances notwithstanding..
It's the same reason I was taught not to ever have one's hands on the workpiece over the cutterhead when operating a jointer. Kickback, board goes, hand stays, love grows...oops, a '60s flashback there.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Unlikely and not possible are two different things.
I think in the example given the operator had enough mechanical control over (from featherboards) the board that kickback would be very unlikely. But for now lets just look at pulling the board through in general.
I agree that it's very unlikely that you'd be pulled into the saw horror movie style, however there is still a chance that the board could 'move' your hands towards or into the blade.
I have seen the example of the Table cloth magic trick used many times in this discussion. Has anyone seen it done wrong, ever try it and sent mom's tuperware all over the kitchen? The cloth has to be pulled straight back for this to work. Your example of the jointer 'kickback' is the same, the jointer will push the board directly back. So the tablecloth analogy is applicable. In a tablesaw the board is also lifted and twisted during kickback (as compared to an ejection, where the board shoots back out of the saw). So the neither anolgy is really applicable.
I think it would depend on many factors: like how far behind the blade you are holding the board, other safety equipment being used... Blah, blah, blah... What it comes down to is ensuring that we are safe at our saws. It's not enough to 'feel safe' and play the 'it's unlikely to happen game', we must ask ourselves two basic questions: Where are my fingers? & In which position do we have the most control of the work piece? Ultimatley if we control the work peice and don't run our fingers into the blade we should have a safe cut. There are lots of people that don't use splitter or guards that do it everyday.
Safe Sawing
Buster
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I used the tablecloth example, not to illustrate that the cloth needs to be pulled just right--that's irrelevant in the analogy. The real analogue in this situation has to do with inertia. The fingers gripping the wood and the wood suddenly and swiftly pulled away. Twisting and lifting has nothing to do with it. It is utterly impossible in the pulling scenario postulated to grip a piece of wood in such a way that one could hang onto it if it was suddenly and swiftly jerked away. Try it, away from the saw.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Have you ever played "tug of war" ? (Personally I see nothing wrong with pulling a board from the back of the saw under certain circumstances)
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Lawrence Wasserman wrote:
snip

consider that you aren't pulling parallel to the ground, but are situated OVER the board and hence have your hand(s) on TOP of the board and are tugging it through. can you NOT see the POSSIBILITY that your hand could come in contact with the blade from a kickback (assuming OF COURSE that there's no blade guard to prevent such contact?
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But you ARE pulling parallel to the ground. There is no other way to pull it. The table prevents you from pulling down, and common sense prevents you from lifting it up.
Note: you only pull after you have something on the back side of the blade to pull on. That is you have pushed halfway through and then pull the rest of the way.
Also, your hand is typically on the side of the wood so it is on top and the bottom at the same time.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, in any scenario in which I would be pulling a board from the outfeed side, I can see *no* possibility in which my hand would be pulled that far into the blade. The kickback would have to physically lift me from the floor and drag me across the outfeed table in order for that to occur since the only times I can envision such an operation entail the cutting of long pieces that are going to extend past the outfeed table.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Mark & Juanita wrote:

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ in that case you aren't any where near the blade, so of course you'd be spared a mishap.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

David wrote:

Just like the OP....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Sorry, I wrote this a little later at night. I will reiterate a little. You are mostly correct, in the example given I would say you are 99% correct (I never say 100%). It is VERY unlikely given the fact that the operator in the original post was in any danger. Considering he used feather boards to hold the piece in and down it would be unlikely to get kickback in the first place. The only real 'danger' is when he lets go of the board to move into his new position behind the table saw.
I agree too that you would have no chance to be pulled into the blade, I however carefully used the word 'move' rather than pull. If you were pulling through a smaller board (I left this out and it is an important point), a kickback could bring your hands in contact with the blade. The twisting and the lifting would have the effect of pushing the board into your hands, while at the same point you would have in your mind to push down. This is a case of looking beyond physics and looking at the body reaction.
With a longer board, with your hands off the table you are correct and the danger is small.
However I will maintain this is not a safe way to use the table saw.
1. There is no safe way to start a cut by pulling, which mean the board will be unattended at some point.
2. Without a featherboard there is no way to maintain pressure against the fence without reaching over the blade. If your were to apply pressure on the back you'd be pinching the blade (or splitter) which would not be good. Plus putting pressure when the end of the board is off the table would essentially be levering it against the fence. Judgeing by the number of posters who don't use splitters, I doubt many people use faetherboards.
3. Why bother when you can just use a pushstick.
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Physiology supplies a good explanation. The muscles of the arm contracted as the initial whack was felt - basic reflex. Hand and arm go toward the body, blade in between.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

but _he_ was standing in front of the saw. there is a huge difference between standing in front of the saw and reaching over the blade and standing behind the saw and pulling a board through a featherboard. you're being deliberately obtuse, BAD.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
bridger wrote:

You can use your saw in any manner you see fit.
You are being deliberately rude, but you already knew that, didn't you?
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Battleax wrote:

think about this: which way is a piece propelled during a kickback? Would you want to have a firm grasp on a board that is going to be forcefully ejected towards the front of the saw, dragging your hand into the blade because you have chosen unwisely to PULL a board through? DOH!
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.