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Mike Marlow wrote:

Thanks, Mike. It's good to see you doing the right thing.
JP
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ljaques wrote:
<<Pop another tank on there and you'll have more than enough spare air for most small to medium jobs (everything you mentioned) Robert. >>
I have one of those things, and have never even used it. It was given to be by another contractor that never used it either. I may try that out as the extra air capacity might overcome or at least compensate for the lack of CFMs. Especially if I jump up to one of those guns that Mike was pointing out.
Thanks -
Robert
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On 12 Feb 2006 21:44:01 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com quickly quoth:

They really do help. Stored air (at 90-120psi) is divvied out at 35psi and that makes it last a whole lot longer.

Jewelcome.
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snipped-for-privacy@diversify.com wrote:

Let me make sure I understand...
I have a pancake compressor = not the smallest. but not enough to power a spray gun, either.
So I can put an extra tank on, and be able to spray, say cabinets? It seems like the system would take forever to get to pressure, but would then hold it perhaps long enough to spray whatever, the recharge while setting up for the next run.
Sound right? Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!
Harvey
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Judging from how long my PC pancake takes to fill from empty, you'll be waiting a long time. I'd say it's maybe two or three minutes to fill the existing tank. Depending on how big the extra tank is, it could take 15 minutes or more to fill, affecting the life of the pump. And I bet it would discharge in a matter of seconds. There's not even enough air in my compressor to take a wheel off a car with an impact wrench. It runs after every 2-3 lugs.
I think you'd be better off with a turbine system.
brian
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brianlanning wrote:

I tee'd my 6 gallon PC compressor with a Milton quick connect between the pressure switch and regulator. One or two 11 gallon auxillary tanks can now be plugged in. The compressor is still used most of the time as designed with absolutely zero fuss.
Do they take a long time to fill initially? Yes! One key is to only use them when you need them and to store them full. I also keep the compressor full all the time. This gives you an initial charge of cool, condensed air. When all 28 gallons are charged, I can spray for a surprising amount of time with a touch-up gun before the compressor kicks in for a refill. By that time, I often need to move, reposition the hose, etc...
By inserting the tanks before the regulator, they all get charged to 135 PSI, then the air line pressure gets set to 40-50 PSI. I'll usually use another in-line regulator right at the tool for fine adjustments. If you leave the 11 gallon tanks charged, they're always ready to shoot a bunch of brads, finish nails or fill tires away from the compressor. The extra was a great use of $20.
Will this wear out the compressor faster? Of course! Can I spray a whole kitchen or entertainment center without waiting? Nope! Will this replace an 80 gallon unit or turbine? Definitely not. But all in all, the setup is surprisingly useful. I already owned the tanks (off-road tire air), so all I needed was less than $10 of hardware to build it.
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B a r r y wrote:

Thanks for the reply.
So the question becomes, how long will the tank last before needing to recharge?
Seems like a straight forward math question, but I don't have the critical information.
If we take a 10 gallon tank, pressurized to 120psi, then regulated to 40psi, how long can you draw 6cfm out of it before dropping below 40 psi? How many cubic feet of air is in 10 gallons at 120psi? How much at 40psi? 60?
BTW - Are these tanks safe at 120psi?
Thanks, Harvey
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Ugh! That one would make my head hurt.

Yes - most of them are rated around 125psi.
--

-Mike-
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On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:57:42 -0500, eclipsme wrote:

To compute this, you need to know the following:
10 gallons (US) is about 1.55 cubic feet 120 psi is about 8.2 atm (14.7 psi = 1 atm) 40 psi is about 2.7 atm
I'll assume no temperature effects for simplicity (in reality, temperature changes will occur, and those changes will affect the actual amount of air available).
I also assume the discharge rate of 6 cfm is at 1 atm (probably fair).
You start with 1.55 cu. ft. * 8.2 atm = 12.7 cu. ft. of air in the tank. You end with 1.55 cu. ft. * 2.7 atm = 4.2 cu. ft. of air in the tank. So you have taken 12.7 - 4.2 = 8.6 cu. ft. out of the tank. At a rate of 6 cfm, that would take about 1.4 minutes, or 1 min 25 sec.
--
Art



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Art Greenberg wrote:

Wow. Nicely done!
I agreed to buy a 7 year old Sears 2hp, 20 gal, 220v, cast iron oiled with oil separator, used lightly, for $150.00, rather than mess with above, esp. for 1 1/2 minutes of air!
Sound good?
Harvey
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eclipseme wrote:
<<I agreed to buy a 7 year old Sears 2hp, 20 gal, 220v, cast iron oiled
with oil separator, used lightly, for $150.00, rather than mess with above, esp. for 1 1/2 minutes of air!
Sound good?
Harvey >>
Just check the cfms generated at the pressure you want to run your selected gun. That compressor is probably a good machine that will last a long time, but it may not generate what you need to run a larger gun.
If you have your gun, check its requirements against the cfms generated by the Sears compressor. If your gun requirements are where some of the larger ones are (10-14 cfms at 50 - 70 lbs), you will be able to run your gun but you will have limited spray time as above.
The cast iron part sounds good; so does the 20 gallon tank. It is probably a CH compressor sold by them as their "Black Max" line. One of my buddies had one for a long time, and he used it all the time as his shop compressor and he liked it a lot.
Of course, YMMV.
Robert
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On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:50 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,

Correct.
Yes, even a little 12v car tire compressor (if it didn't melt first) could pump enough air into a large tank to spray a set of cabinets.
You need X cubic feet of air at Y PSI for the gun. How you produce it doesn't matter.
--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
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eclipseme wrote:
<<Let me make sure I understand...
I have a pancake compressor = not the smallest. but not enough to power
a spray gun, either.
SNIP
Sound right? Sure would be less expensive than buying a new compressor!
<<
It sounds perfect. You are only using the compressor part of the operation to pressurize the air. I personally never thought of this until Larry made the suggestion.
Think of it this way; my question that has been so ably answered was that of how to use a small gun/compressor combo that can be portable and taken to my jobs. I asked about using a bigger gun than my trim gun, which works fine with my current pancake, but I was looking for a bigger gun due to the small size capacity of the trim gun.
However, bigger guns need more CFMs. Here's the bite, and it will take a little experimenting, but it should work fine. The bigger guns suggested probably (actually) need about 6 cfm to operate at about 45 - 50 lbs of pressure. The pressure switch on my Bostitch compressor is set at soemthing like 85 pounds; so plenty of pressure all the time (and the compressor would run all the time) and the pressure itself will never fall below what the gun needs to operate. HOWEVER, it will not deliver the correct amount of cfms to push the paint out.
I must take my spray rig to the job, and must use it there to spray metal doors, metal garage doors, metal sheds, security bars, etc. with oil based coatings. Easy portability and an optimized delivery system were what I was after. Without the portability issue, I have no problem as I can spray from the larger shop compressor which lives in the shop and is not at all portable. If it is latex, I already have a nice airless setup for that. It shoots the thickest latex with no thinning, so less coats of material. I was only asking about oil based material delivery systems.
So... the great suggestion was made to put an additional tank on the setup to store the pressurized air. If the compressor tank and the 2nd tank are both pushed to 125 lbs of stored air, it will take much longer for me to drain both tanks at 45-50 lbs of pressure required by the gun (even at 6 cfm) than it would for me to drain the compressor only. With a 6 gallon tank on the compressor, I didn't stand a chance. However with 16 gallons using both tanks, I should get some reliable spraying as I have such a greater volume of air under pressure.
I know I will have to let the compressor "catch up" but this is a really hyperactive compressor that recovers very quickly. So I can spray a fair amount, then when I get to a logical stopping point like the end of run of security bars, a door face, whatever, I can stop moment and then go on. I have developed a rhythm over the years from taking my roofing gun out to do a repair when I have been stuck with my 1hp trim compressor. Three or four shots, then it kicks in.... then three more shots. I am patient and it works fine.
It spraying this way will work the hell out of the compressor, but then I am only spraying a little at a time. I think with a little practice and care, I can stay even with the setup.
I have my paint regulator/dryer setup as a stand alone unit that I take along when I paint, and I will just put that on the end of the hose coming from tank 2, not on the end of the compressor as I have it now for my small gun.
Should work great.
Robert
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