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Mike Marlow (in 6504$43ed24fd$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, | that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated | it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else | before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when | guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only | seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of | posting what you know is something that has been addressed to death?
Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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said:

Sure, but how does doing a little research one's self and checking the archives first defeat that objective?
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-Mike-
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Mike Marlow (in 51bcd$43ed3cfd$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
| said: || ||| I've never understood when a person states this, and it's true, ||| that they don't just google the archives. Instead, having stated ||| it, they go into the same list of requirements that everyone else ||| before them has stated. Sure, those are great considerations when ||| guying a gun, but why not do a simple search that takes only ||| seconds to do, and will reveal a wealth of information, instead of ||| posting what you know is something that has been addressed to ||| death? || || Perhaps in hopes that someone knows about a gee-whiz new product || that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? | | Sure, but how does doing a little research one's self and checking | the archives first defeat that objective?
It doesn't - but Brian's choice of words indicated an awareness of past discussions (which implies that he'd either lurked or arleady STFW) and reasonable cluefulness. I've bought three of these darned conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest part of my problem).
During a recent project (a sign - there're photos at http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/PT_Sign.html ) I finally cleaned all the spray equipment, packed it away, and did the painting with roller and brushes. Before I waste any more time with the darned stuff /I/ will need to learn more than I've pulled off the wreck so far.
An A-Z spray painting (and perhaps HVLP spray painting) for dummies web page would probably be a big help for a lot of people. Know of any good online resources?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Brian - here's my .02.
I paint a few houses a year, and I use a small Graco dx model. After a recent price drop, they are now only $300 plus change. This will spray the thickest latex you can imagine (the highest end stuff is almost glop), and I spray about 200 gallons a year out of it. I never thin any of the paint, and I never have had a spot of trouble with it in the last 4 years. With the setup that comes with it, you can spray directly from a gallon can, or a five gallon can. Different tips are available to spray oil based paint, varnish, and other more viscuous finishes. It is probably the smallest turbine powered airless you can get, but worth every penny.
That will take care of your latex, oil, and maybe some other finishes. Tip spray other finishes are about $18, and there are a lot of them. One thing though... you will only get good mileage out of this machine if you clean it well every time you use it, and if it goes into storage use the recommended pump storage fluid.
Now for oil based only. This will make some of the pros cringe...
Check this out: http://tinyurl.com/97mtk
I have one of these guns and I use them to paint metal doors after I install them, as well as metal garage doors, burglar bars, and any other surface requiring oil based material. The gun is small, easy to handle, and does a helluva job. It only handles about 7 oz of paint though, so if you were going to paint your car you would have no end of problems with this as the capacity is so small. The best part is you can run it off a small compressor (which I take to the site anyway) as the air requirements are so small. Since I run the gun at about 45 - 50 psi, I always have constant pressure as the compressor kicks on at about 80 pounds so I never notice a drop.
Here's a good tip on something I found by accident. I mix my paint in a sports bottle (Goodwill, .35 ea.) that has gradients on the side. That way I can mix how much I need accurately, and then have a resealable bottle for the balance of he paint or when I need a refill. The thinned paint stays in perfect condition for several days in the current lot of bottles I am buying, and for convenience sake I can mix bigger batches of paint.
One of my amigos showed me the above referenced gun and he told me he uses it for furniture finishing and refinishing. He bought it on a lark because of price, and now he keeps two or three around that are dedicated to certain finishes. He shoots lacquer and poly out of it with no problems. He has even painted a fender or two, but no complete cars. It has a good volume control and pattern control (round to fan only) and seems pretty well made. I can't tell you how surprised I was when I started using this gun. I couldn't recommend it enough as a great gun to experiment with to learn how to spray different oil or solvent based finishes. Likewise how to cut, retard, and accelerate the finishes you are interested in using.. Sometimes in my mind I think everything in HF is crap...
But remember, when you make air, you make water. You MUST have a drier on your machine before it gets to the gun, and you MUST have a good gauge and regulator to make sure you have quality air. However, this will be the case on >any< gun you run from a compressor. And your compressor question will be answered by the gun you choose. Some are real air hogs, and some are just piglets. Find out which gun you want first and use that as your jumping off point on compressors. Any compressor you buy to run a spray gun will almost definitely run a large variety of air powered sanders, nailers, etc.
I haven't seen a setup that does both latex and oil finishes really well. I am sure that there are those here that know of such an animal, but they all seem to have their drawbacks, even if it just the amount of pain you go through to clean the machine/guns.
Good luck.
Robert
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Sound advice for any gun. Clean is good.

Cringe???? Hell, this is a knock off of a Binks jam and trim gun. Terrific gun. I have the original Binks and I use it a lot. So much easier than mixing up enough for a big gun and so much easier to dip and dive around small areas. The patents on these classic guns has long ago expired and there's a ton of perfectly good knock offs out there. They work great and in some cases the parts are actually interchangeable with the original gun they are copying.

It would be too small for a complete. It's really not good for a fender, but could be forced into cooperation. It doesn't deliver the right amount of paint for a complete and like you've said, you'll be spending more time filling it than shooting it. But... the big brother to this gun is the knock off of the Binks model 7. It'll do the job. Really a better primer gun because the model 7 thows some paint, but for just a single stage paint, it would work. The model 7 knock off might even be a good recommendation for you to consider for the bigger projects like garage doors. I think you might find it easier to get nicer finishes with it than the trim gun.

Ohhhhhh..... just wait until you shoot your first epoxy primer through that trim gun. Then you'll know the real meaning of "pain to clean".
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... and I don't want to become a point of contention on this matter, so I'll not-so-gracefully bow out (you've never seen me bow...)

Can I offer some assistance?

I looked at the link again, but the pics are from too great a distance and I can't see any detail in the painting to see what's wrong. How about a blurb about the problems you had.

Well, I don't know if you'd call it an A-Z, but I've posted some pretty detailed ramblings about proper spray technique. HVLP and conventional painting don't really offer a difference in style if you view you objective from the stand point of layering on the material. Spray speed changes some, but the things that you watch for on the surface of the material being painted are really the same. The objective is easy to post, but like everything else, obtaining the objective is a matter of practice. Not to sound like I'm dismissing anything, but you have to develop a bit of muscle memory and it only comes from working on some scrap until you get the speed and distance down right and develop the knack of watching your pattern go down on the surface. Some typical problems can be explained and corrections offered - things like orange peel for example, and then after that it's a practice thing. Quickly enough though you get one of those ah-hah! moments.
Post some more info on your problems getting a good finish and let's see what we can do.
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-Mike-
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Mike Marlow (in ae1a4$43edc4a3$452896b0$ snipped-for-privacy@ALLTEL.NET) said:
| || || I've bought three of these darned || conversion guns and still haven't been able to produce results I'm || satisfied with (and I'm still not sure that I'm not the biggest || part of my problem). | | Can I offer some assistance?
Most definitely (and Thank You!) but, if it's OK with you, I'll take a rain check until my schedule allows me to spend some time experimenting - and I'll need to do some archive reading of my own before then.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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If you're inclined, there is a diatribe I posted a while ago - maybe a year ago (?) that covered a lot of technique stuff. As I recall it really was a diatribe. Have some strong coffee on hand to ward off the tendency to fall asleep. If you find it and it's helpful, then great. If you find it and it's not helpful, then fire away - we'll create a new diatribe. I you don't find it, fire away anyway. Despite all of my "quirks", I do enjoy being able to offer something of help, so we can step through it all again.
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Actually, I did do a search. And I wasn't too pleased with what I found. The questions and answers sort of danced around what I asked, but didn't hit it exactly. Also, I was hoping to get new information. Like "hey there's this new gun that just came out". Or maybe there's a new person with something to add that isn't in the archives. And since it's cheap to post and reply, who cares? If you don't want to rehash this again, don't respond.
brian
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There has been a ton of stuff talked about and all sorts of points raised and answered - quite directly. But... not necessarily so, if your questions remain unanswered. I didn't see anything in your questions that was not addressed several times in the stuff that's been bantered about here, so I'll just come out and ask... which questions remain unanswered?

The last part of that statement is what can make a guy say "fXXk you". You know Brian - it's not too much to suggest that folks do an archive search. Whether you did one or not is not apparent from your original post - in fact it appeared to me that you didn't or you didn't bother to look too hard. Perhaps I was wrong - I'm willing to stand corrected on that single point, but I really don't accept well the "if you don't want to rehash this again, don't respond" stuff. What's the matter - did I crap in your personal playground by suggesting a search? That's what it seems.
Understand something Brian - it's more than just some folks not wanting to see a particular thread start up or question asked because it somehow inconveniences them or disturbs them. Some of us have invested *a lot* of time into detailing answers and pointers and recommendations to these questions over time. We did it in the name of sharing, in order to help other folks out. Such is the nature of a group like this. In turn, we get our questions answered. But the point is the effort has been invested in answering this stuff and there does exist a good archive of these answers. Yes - you do get a bit tired of answering the same things over and over again. Especially when a little effort would reveal a wealth of information. Everything from compressor selection to gun selection (by type) to gun experiences (by manufacturer and model), to spray technique, to problem solving (why do I get orange peel), to repair of spray defects has been either thrown about here, or really chased in detail. Sure - there's always room for the question that asks "hey has anything really changed in this area?", implying perhaps a question as to new guns or something similar, but that's really an entirely different question. I responded to the question asked. It is a longstanding expectation of usenet/netnews that the poster will do a little search when he/she expects that the question is something that has "been beaten to death".
I responded the way that I did because your post did not ask the questions you're now suggesting was their intent. You really asked the same stuff that has been addressed a lot here. A search *would* have directly answered some/most of your questions - not danced around them. That stuff has indeed been discussed directly and in some depth here. I guess in the end, I stand by my original thoughts thought, and (seemingly in conflict with...) should you have any questions or confusion remaining after reviewing what exists in the archives, and I can offer any insights or help in specific areas, I remain willing to do so. Sometimes you just want to see a guy put in the effort and not take the short cut and ignore all of the effort that others have put in by just asking what he wants now.
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Mike Marlow wrote: <snip of long rant from top of I've been here longer soapbox ranting>
Buzz off. The question's on topic. Ask what you want Brian - don't let some net nanny get you down.
JP ************************** Do it my way.
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I'm sorry - I did not realize you were the moderator of this group. Pot - kettle.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

"Buzz off" is a colloquialism there champ. By all means continue to post as you please.
JP ******************** For the flaming impaired.
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Pot -

I've been here a while but somehow I missed that. I'm sorry.
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It sounds like you might want to take a break from your self appointed job of being group moderator. The stress is really starting to show.
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And you Frank seem to be taking exception with everyone here who suggests what is a long established usenet courtesy. Rebel without a cause?
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Not everyone Mike. What's *your* cause, btw?
JP
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job
suggests
I stand up and fight for the rights of women to parade naked through the streets. But only if they're under 180 lbs.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

And for that I thank you. Let me know next time they're rallying and I'll help with crowd control.
JP ************************************ I will fight no more forever.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Let's see....new tools, new opinions of old posters, new opinions of new posters and it happens to be ON TOPIC and WHAT THE GROUP IS FOR.
JP ******************************************** Original topics only. No repeats. Redundant, ad nauseum political rantings are AOK.
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