But, he did attempt a resolution beforehand. And, upon attempting that
resolution he was rebuffed.
It was only on further complaint (and I suspect a good attention from
this newsgroup), that brought about what most would consider the
No you are wrong. Lee Valley did not blame the customer, an
individual that works for them did. He was wrong and Rob Lee is
taking care of that. Wait for the rest of the story before making
But he got the troops here riled up before getting a second contract
and resolution. Does LV deserve to be drug through the mud yet? Maybe
at some point, but people are already taking how LV had gone to crap
before the final word was in. That is unfair and Leon is the person
staring that. Shame on him; I expected better of Leon. Sorry, but I
stand by my comment. If Rob Lee told him the same thing, I'd agree,
but it seems he did not. He is trying to rectify the situation.
Like everyone else, I've had encounters with poor customer service by
some companies over the years, but I don't whine about it until the
situation is finalized. I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
real problem. Some businesses deserve bad publicity, but others really
do rectify problems and make things right.
I did tell it all as it played out.
But I have to ask, you think less of me because I took this all the way
and let every one know what was going on.
Would you to prefer to think of me as the person that gave up and let
the situation go unresolved and then post that they screwed me around?
I am thinking that it would have been real easy to not post copies of
every move made by every one and perhaps left, for some, a bad feeling
I think we are all adults here, life is not rosy but I believe that the
out come of this thread came out positive for LV and did not benefit my
mission to smear LV had that been my purpose in the first place.
My sole reason to start this thread was to point out a fact and a
problem. It turns out that LV was at fault and did have a problem and
as it turns out my posting all the facts here enabled me to take the
necessary steps to contact the right person to correct the problem. I
was getting nowhere until a few here gave me the necessary information
to get to the person that would care. LV truly had a problem that was
affecting its customers and now that problem has been brought to light
and is being corrected.
No, I'm thinking you are a mature and reasoned person that would tell
the entire story, not start with the portion that incites people. Some
will read to the end, others have already condemned LV as going to
I did not say it was your reason to smear LV, but telling the first
part of the story can easily be interpreted that way. It was, from
the various replies.
I'm sure that LV appreciates your finding the issue. You did the
right thing in the end, but it had a bumpy start.
Ok, first off every employee at LV represents LV, they are all the face
of LV. Let the few that want to run thing their way and the company
looses direction and customers suffer. So yes, two different LV
employees blamed the customer therefore LV blamed the customer.
He was wrong and Rob Lee is
Again, I did nothing to stir the pot except to state facts. Perhaps my
post should have been precluded that some readers might want to leave
the room as the facts might be found disturbing. ;~)
Does LV deserve to be drug through the mud yet? Maybe
Again, I was stating facts, nothing fiction here and others jumping on
board apparently has similar instances. Perhaps you read way more into
my comments that were intended.
That is unfair and Leon is the person
Actually my response to Rob responding to my e-mail to him wa that I
wanted no favors but thought he should be brought aware of the situation.
I don't think stating facts as they played out was whining. Nor do I
believe that sitting back and waiting for some one else to take the
initiative to correct a problem is going to fix anything.
I have had several contacts with LV and it was not until I contacted Rob
that I felt confident that the situation would be rectified. I posted
every comment and posted every copy of the correspondence here as it
unfolded. If anything I think it might be to LV's benefit that I did
so. I reassured those reading my posts that Rob is still interested in
running his company in the manner that we are accustomed to. Had I not
taken all of this further I would have still had a bad taste in my mouth
and probably would have thought twice about using them when delivery
timing was a factor.
Now if you feel that what I posted was dragging LV through the mud
perhaps that was because the first few contacts I made with a couple of
the LV reps decision to dismiss the problem as customer error left you
feeling that you would not want to be treated that way. From the
beginning they knew that I had a receipt and a confirmation number and
they could not find it. That was their mistake for dismissing the problem.
I'm sorry if you took offense to the way I handled the situation but
having run stores most all of my career the people that take the
initiative to recognize and correct a problem are the people that I
always wanted working for me, not the ones that passed it off and let
the next guy clean up the mess. There are those that get the job done
and there are those that sit back and watch.
I don't jump to conclusions until I find the
Turns out my suppositions were correct and until I contacted Rob the
situation was going to go unresolved.
That's where you are wrong Ed, any individual working for Lee Valley is
a representative of Lee Valley, and I think Leon did try with a
supervisor... If I remember... so it was Lee Valley.. (either lack of
training or bad new policy).
He was wrong and Rob Lee is
Why are you being such a bear about this? When making complaints, at
what point do you stop? Two tries, three tries, more?
It's not like Leon didn't try, he did and was cut off by a customer
service rep with the wrong information on hand. And, how many times
after talking with a customer service rep, are you able to go much
higher over their head and talk to the CEO of the company?
Leon didn't have Rob Lee's email in the beginning. He got that email
by the very fact of airing his grievance in this newsgroup. And, the
only reason Rob Lee's email was available is the fact that he
frequently contributes in some newgroups. All those conditions aren't
very common at all.
Everything that happened was needed to get to the final (proper)
On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 03:58:34 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
Leon already knew who to contact. Finding Rob's email is not all that
difficult, it was just a simple question easily answered. I just think
that airing the first half of the problem cast them in a light that
people were already making decisions that LV went to crap, as plainly
He did the right thing in the end, just could have handled the first
portion better, IMO.
Think about what you're saying. Lee Valley has one of the best
reputations in the business. This little flap isn't nearly enough
tarnish that image. And, anybody who is at all into woodworking know
However you feel about the way Leon approached this problem, I prefer
view it as just another example of Lee Valley Tools doing that they do
best. Problem in the beginning and now it's solved. If anything, it
will be just another example of Lee Valley Tools doing what they do
best ~ providing customer service. And that, will bring in even more
I heard that Leon has problems getting material from his suppliers. I
wonder why. I don't know the whole story, just what I saw here so
I'll interpret his problem the way I see it and not get the rest of
Now, did that piss you off Karl?
No one said it should be tolerated, but there are often better ways to
handle such situations.
I think that Leon had a true point.
The confirmation, the receipt...
So lets assume that the credit card did not go through, why did he get
So now lets assume that they lost the order, but he mailed them proof of
confirmation and receipt...
In either case, Lee Valley should have stepped up.. They are known for
their customer service on top of their usually good tools and hardware.
I would expect them to treat him differently from the reciept and
confirmation than what he received. Then add to that if they looked up
his activity , they might have given him some more respect.
Both true but from what I've read in this read (not all) I'm thinking that
the problem was that the page timed out before the order was actually
Normally, when ordering stuff online, you are eventually presented with a
page detailing the order; an invoice, essentially. There is often/usually a
confirmation number too and a suggestion that the purchaser print the page
but the order isn't actually placed until the buyer hits the "Place Order"
or "Submit" or whatever button. Once that is done, gears grind, stuff
whirls, credit card is checked & charged and eventually - if all has gone
well - a new page pops up and thanks you for your order. I rather imagine
that final "Thank you" page didn't pop up for Leon.
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