Humility

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On 2/3/2015 6:58 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Not accepting the truth, possibly because of the Kool-Aid you have been drinking, does not mean that it is not the truth.
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On 1/29/15, 6:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

I also saw a requirement for 50% attendance.

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On 1/31/2015 8:54 AM, Brewster wrote:

OMG! You only need to attend half of your classes....
Here is what the government is doing, it is finding something for idle hands to do for the next 4 years when they can't find jobs.
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[Re: "free" community college]

DING DING DING! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
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On 1/31/2015 9:30 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Thank you Doug! :~)
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On 1/31/2015 9:30 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

Oh, oh ... now you'll really get him wound up.
(Disclaimer: I agree with everything Leon as stated thus far)
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wrote:

If you think a college education is expensive now, just wait until it's free!
Was listening to a talk show about this exact issue yesterday. The host had gone to Germany to participate in an education seminar. The German participants, without exception, agreed with you.

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On 1/29/2015 7:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Exactly and the waste will be sad. A dollar goes in and maybe 20 cents goes toward the education. If the government is involved in your education you can rest assured that you can look anywhere else and get a better one.

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Colleges and universities are a hotbed of sexual predation and assaults... and everybody should be able to go there free!
More tortured logic from the Left...
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³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes
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On 1/29/2015 3:07 PM, Leon wrote:

You can not suppress an educated independent population
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On 1/29/2015 4:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Depends upon who is in charge of the educating and what their agenda is.
This country has had more money thrown at education than ever before in human history (Detroit school system a case in point), is more suppressed than ever with rights continually under assault by the government and militarized police forces, with more folks in jail (many corporate, for profit systems), more in poverty, and the majority so poorly educated, to the point of barely being qualified to flip burgers, that we must rely on visas to fill the spots that require something other than a basket weaving curriculum.
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On 1/29/2015 8:28 PM, Swingman wrote:

You forgot to mention the children that wake up in the morning turn on the tablet, or computer and text all day until the go to bed that night. Their parents don't notice as they sit around the living room texting all of the people they are aware, of and ignore the kids.
With this system, we are developing a dysfunctional society with no skills for physical iterating with the people around them. Kids that think they are being harassed if you look at them cross eyed, and get their parent to take person to court for harassing their children.
It is a losing proposition
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Keith Nuttle wrote:

The "values" taught by the media (tv, movies, dramas, etc.?) don't help. How many of them sit around once in a while with a book in their hand? Get at least get a few to the newsgroup (what's that?) rec.woodworking where they might gainfully learn to fix a sink! ;)

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On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 11:03:28 PM UTC-5, keith snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

no

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"

.

,



I don't consider it a "system", I consider it bad personal choices on the p art of the parents.
I've got 2 kids in graduate school, another with a BS degree working in his field of study, and a fourth with a pretty good job considering he decided that college was not for him at this time.
I feel that I played a huge part in their success.
For many years my family was deeply involved in Soap Box Derby racing. 3 of the 4 kids qualified for the World Championship Race in Akron, OH multiple times (7 trips in total). One of them won the World Championship in the to p division. One rule I had is that they didn't race if they didn't work on their own cars. Did I expect them to put in as many hours as I did? No, the y had other commitments, but I made sure that they were involved in every a spect of the builds especially at the beginning of each new process. They w ere introduced to metal work, bondo, fiberglass, bondo, weight distribution , bondo, etc. Did I mention bondo? It wasn't just about learning hands-on s kills, it was more about teaching them that rewards require hard work and w hile hard work doesn't guarantee rewards, it greatly increases the possibil ity.
Yes, they text from sun up to sun down (and in between) but many of those t exts are to me. They also know when to put down the phone and concentrate o n the tasks at hand.
My point is that we can't blame a "system". There is no rule book for paren ting, there are only common sense practices that point your kids down the r ight path. It's up to the parents.

I feel like a winner.
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On 1/30/2015 9:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Bingo! Parental involvement.
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On 1/30/2015 11:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I agree it is the parents. It starts with the little kid when you bring him home from the hospital. At that point you start to develop his moral and social value system. During this time you help him develop his basic respect for friends, family, neighbors, the police and other institutions. ie doing unto others what they would have others do unto them. not coveting the things your neighbor has, there are several other valid rules to follow.
The problem that I mentioned above is that the parents of these kids think it is acceptable when people come over to their house to go to the computer in the back room and only appear periodically. OR to set around the room with their guest ignoring them and texting to the worlds. They are setting a great example for the kids with their parent behavior, see nothing wrong with the same behavior.
PS: I to think I did well with my kids also. Both are college graduates, and have good jobs. Both have been in stable marriages for nearly 20 years, and while the one can not have children the other is raising to nice grandsons for me.
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On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 12:17:12 PM UTC-5, keith snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net w rote:
...snip...



...snip...
It makes you wonder what the parent's parents were like. Mine were fairly s trict and I know that my grandparents were even more so, at least on my dad 's side. I didn't realize how much I really liked/understood my dad until I was already out of the house and raising my own kids. It took longer than it should have for it all to sink in. I'm extremely thankful that my kids s eem to have gotten the picture much sooner than I did. I can't say for sure that they didn't like me when they were younger, but they sure do now. Not as much as they like mom...that's a competition I'll never win - nor would I want to. ;-)
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On 1/30/2015 12:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

My parents were strict and I thought I would be also. That did not happen. I simply did not lie to our son regardless of what the topic was, well Santa Claus might be an exception, and I taught him by example. It worked better than my wildest expectations.
My parents, shall we say, were sometimes less than truthful. If you are not honest with your kids you are only fooling yourself if you think they are going to respect and listen to everything you say. The belt or being grounded makes kids mind and teaches them to not get caught, but does it explain what they actually did wrong? Typically kids are going to learn and do as their parents show and do. Always pretend that our kids are watching you and be honest with them and I don't think you will be disappointed.
When my son was young, 10ish, my wife and I became debt free, we owed nobody. I did not really preach to my 10 year old son what was going on and how to get there as this was above his head. Go forward 12 years and my son has had a masters degree, 1 year later he has his is a CPA license, and at 25 he too is a dept free home owner. I'm certainly not smart to teach this and the schools certainly don't stress the importance of not being debt.
The other day he told me something that totally got my attention... He pays more in income taxes than he does for all other experiences combined. I recall topping out in SS taxes at one point in my life but never ever spent less to live than what I paid the government.
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On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 2:07:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

f an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at l east 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

h coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am do ing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp ta ble saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

ade of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I won der if material use was really artistic or just the use of available materi al in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were e dge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and sli de mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these p arts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool m arks even after years of use.

e top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near dupli cates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded f ive times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmansh ip were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

cluding some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We h ave also finished out our entire home.

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ty" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to take some wood working classes in junior high or high school. I only know of one that tha t the opportunity that I had when I was young. For various reasons, liabil ity being the main one, schools have dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really old, Unisaw that I used in high school is si tting at the end of the current agriculture shop being use for occasional c utoff work or as a table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the scho ols don't want to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK, but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop te chnology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to replac e perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

5 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the count ry. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training programs but thei r best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn pulls students from othe r areas. Other than the Joplin area there are few local opportunities for wood classes.



Yeah but budgets is budgets and rural schools, such as ours, feel the crunc h. We have an excellent school that only exists because locals came up wit h a large amount of cash to supplement a bond issue to build a needed high school. Our alumni association manages a portfolio that pays a $30K annual payment against the bond and at the end of the 30 year bond period we wil l pay off the rest. We run fund raisers and beg to get together enough ca sh for lights for a baseball field. Then we hear about the poor KC area s chools who are afraid they might not be able to afford an indoor practice f acility until next year. Academic metrics for our school are among the bes t but we struggle constantly for survival.
Oh Well. I guess that was a digression. :o)
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On 1/29/15, 9:05 AM, RonB wrote:

Key point. My junior HS taught woodworking, had a metal shop where we would do tin work, lathe work and aluminum casting, small engine shop, building trades, etc. HS had the auto shop stuff, drafting, and electronics lab plus many other 'trade' type classes. These are no more....
-BR
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