=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --Lily Tomlin- Hide quoted text -
I hated to add my 2 cents about polyshades but it does work. Yeah, overbrushing makes a helluva mess. Slam 'er on there and stop. I did like Bob S's idea. Very cool.
RP
*SNIP* of good work
Very interesting technique. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to post all that great information.
I like your idea, too. Since stained "anything" doesn't look like the real McCoy, it is professional suicide to try. I won't stand and make excuses to the client as to why the two surfaces don't match. I am on the same page of thinking, as I don't try to match a color or finish unless I think I can. (BTW, maple will NEVER look like walnut. At the end of the process, it will look brown, black, or brown/black, but never like walnut.)
So I either try to complement the piece I am trying to match, or to contrast it completely. When the surfaces don't match correctly, they automatically tell folks looking at your work something incorrect has happened.
That might be a perfect job to put a very dark brick red cherry dye on and see how they like that.
Good post.
Robert
Every time a client answers the question about what kind of wood they want the piece to be with a stain/color reference, like "light walnut", or "golden oak", I ask no further questions ... that particular answer automatically dictates the wood used.
When it comes to matching existing work, and being color blind myself, my bid always includes my favorite paint contractor ... I'll let those of you to whom color is important argue about it, I can't hep it! :)
"Swingman" wrote
What a perfect excuse! Although I am not color blind, my quilter wife accuses me of being color ignorant, color insensitive and color illiterate. Some folks are really into color. You are right. Just pass this little discussion off to folks who are into this kind of thing.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 03:43:31 -0700 (PDT), the infamous " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" scrawled the following:
And stained pieces may match well in your shop, with that particular set of lighting, but not in the dim recesses of the client's home, and never out in the sunlight. Stain just sucks, all the way around.
I like the contrasting idea.
Most folks, whose taste is all in their mouths, would love it. ;)
-- No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up. --Lily Tomlin
Maple does not stain well at all. You might consider a walnut veneer over the maple.
It has save my bacon many, many times. A couple of my fellow finishers here in town *still* try to match colors, the way they used to match paint colors up in the old days.
It's nuts. Even if it matches today, it may not match well tomorrow. The new plywoods (OK... this is a working theory between me and another finishing wonk) have something different about their manufacture that make it change the color of the wood after it is colored and sealed.
It's something. I don't know for sure, but I am thinking that it has to be the glue used in manufacture. Most of us down here that make a few cabs once in a while (like me) use the pre cut rail and stile material which is all soft maple.
So when I dye (don't use stain much anymore as I can't spray it! ) the cabs all look the same hue after sealing.
Later (say a year or more), I have noticed that the rails/stiles and the carcass end panels are different colors. The clients don't notice as it happens gradually. But if I am there for new work, I do.
So what else could be the odd man out but the glue? And with the actual veneers being as thin as sheer panty hose (scratch that... thigh highs with garters.... mmmmm.....) it is VERY possible that the glues they use in China a Chile are out gassing when we buy them.
Hey.... I like it too!
Well, not all of it, but some of it anyway. It has to go with the color scheme. A couple of years ago I did some deep red colored doors and trims at the entrance (4" wide panel door) of a local upscale country club. It was 1/2 Behlens Walnut and 1/2 Behlens Dark Mahogany dye, sprayed with a 75% reduction of alcohol through a 1mm nozzle.
They were beautiful when finished.
Later, a client had me do the same color in their kitchen. They had the greenish black marble counters in their home, and it looked great. Very classy, and had a very stately look to it. Not my choice for the kitchen, but it wasn't my house, either.
So for me, If I have to stain, I like the Old Masters stuff the best.
My "custom" color is 4 parts Walnut with 1 part Mahogany stirred in it. I don't mix it completely. That way when I apply it you get hints (I do mean just hints) of a different hue when finished. You can't pick out the actual red, but you know it isn't just plain brown.
Personally, I just can't stand plain brown wood unless it is it is naturally occurring.
And I absolutely, completely, entirely HATE golden oak. I am sick of looking at it.
Next peeve, someone around here has taken to putting black stain on knotty pine in cabinets. ?? I have seen this in very expensive houses, and it absolutely looks like crap.
Swing - is that a trend in new home building cabinets?
Robert
SWMBO, who actually enjoys going to open houses, was the first to mention this to me.
Indeed it seems to be spreading ... just about a year ago, and in many high end homes, you started seeing cabinets, and furniture, that you used to be able to buy only in border towns ... you know, knotty pine, rusty nail joinery, finished in used motor oil du jour.
I was thinking the mexican drug cartels must be spiking these folks breakfast cereal with angel dust ... go figure?
"Swingman" wrote
Back in the 70's, I used to make rustic style furniture. I started getting requests to make "old spanish style" furniture. This was stuff made from planks, with gate hardware for the hinges. And painted black. My stuff was much nicer and had a good finish. But noooooo...., people wanted plain and black. Of course, there was a lot of drug use during that time!
I remember one time, I finished a very large room divider-planter with a built in aquarium and grow lights. My customer saw some imports with rough hewn edges. She insisted on making all the outside edges rough hewn. Sooooo...., I bought a drawknife and went to work. I worked for hours and hours shaving big chunks off the edes of this very hard hemlock 2 X12's. I stopped to sharpen the drawknife often.
I went to bed and slept hard and long. The next morning I could not get out of bed. It took several attempts to stand up and I could not stand up straight. It took days before I was recovered enough to stand up straight and work again. I almost killed myself over those rough hewn edges. And I got a bunch of requests for those too! I told them that it would double the price. Or they could buy a drawknife and do it themselves. I am happy to say I didn't get any takers.
Poplar with "light walnut" or "golden oak" stain? :-)
;)
1/8" Luan, veneered on a #3 SYP substrate.
A few years ago my wife and I purchased an antique bookshelf (with two bottom drawers) at the annual antiques fair in Round Top Texas. It has a _very_ nice design and construction, but the damn thing is just COATED with that black crap you see on so many old pieces (what IS that shit, anyway?), and I hate the look of it; every time I walk by it I see a refinish project in my future.
So why did we buy it, you ask? The damn thing is made of SOLID Honduras Mahogany, every last piece! The sides and back are all rail and stile with raised panels, and even the drawer bottoms are solid raised panels. No plywood or poplar anywhere; all solid Mahogany. If I was able to find that much rough-cut HM at my local supplier today it would cost me at least $300, probably more. Gave the vendor a $100 bill and drove off. Neener! :-)
Nice! :-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:19:43 -0700 (PDT), the infamous " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" scrawled the following:
And it _always_ looks different under any light other than the one it was matched with.
Isn't it just the oxidation of both the finish and the wood underneath?
Better. When the last client asked me to stain the cabinet I built for them, I cringed. Once when they asked, the second time when they handed me the PolyShades. The solids went after the grain, darkening it horribly, and leaving the plain hickory face much lighter. And how do you match oak iron-on tape to hickory with PolyShit all over it and no extra money for color work? Oh, well. It was a huge remodeling job, a 6'x7' kitchen in a guest cottage.
I, um, guess that's a good thing. ;)
Glues attacking the finish and/or the wood? Glue fuming the wood?
You like ancient cherry, darker than walnut and damnear ebony? That's not as bad as a fake cherry finish on crapwood, though.
OK, but things like that have to be lit well or they look black. The darker woods in kitchens lit with 4kW of lamps look pretty cool, but at what cost? All that light costs money to operate and it bleaches the wood in the process.
That does sound classy. I love this marble:
Sounds much better than plain old RBS.
Ditto.
Yeah, it has become far to prevalent and common. Cedar fencing causes the same visceral reaction in me. "Cedar" colored finishes just _suck_.
It sounds an awful lot like "distressing" to me. Is the same crowd calling for it? "Ebonized Naughty Pineywood, only $18.79/sf more!" Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
-- No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up. --Lily Tomlin
I don't think so. The level of oxidation in today's better finishes is almost nil when inside in regular light. They are high resin, abrasion resistant, and they even have a bit of UV resistance built in now due to the fact that so many folks have these halogen can or track lights that fade finishes.
There is something going on. I didn't see that kind of fading when we used Georgia Pacific or similar plywood. Now even some of their stuff is sold under another name, but it is Chinaply. It is difficult for me to get the good plywood here as the local suppliers (all of 2) don't want to sell to someone that buys two sheets for end panels.
20, yes; 2, no.Besides, if that was the case, the rails, stiles, doors, drawer fronts, etc., would all discolor as well. The odd piece out is the plywood sides, and the only difference between the wood and the plywood is the stinky glue.
The only thing I can think of is the glue outgassing. I have had finishes compromised by outgassing before. It is no different than coating a piece of "case hardened" wood. I made some walnut display cases for a client, and found that out the hard way. Dry on the outside, still too wet on the inside (my ligno lied as did my supplier) as to the moisture. I finished the solid walnut cases, and it took a week before the damage showed up.
Now that I don't understand. Why would you compromise your work with an inferior product? I am no prima donna and I am in this to make money. But I won't do anything that I know will embarrass me or my company. Polyshades = NO. Olympic products of any sort = NO. We agree up front what the parameters are, and that includes finishes and protocols. I don't like any loose ends, and I won't get trapped into using some crap off the shelf at Home Depot.
I got nothing. I don't know. See above. I usually cheerily reply, "well, let me work up a price and put it in writing and I will let you know how much that will be."
You are obviously thinking much darker than me. Think a traditional, medium dark mahogany.
Not my money, and these folks can afford it. Additionally, stains fade quite slowly, and provide excellent UV resistance. Behlen's Solalux is better than stain (except the solids and heavy opaques) as it has UV built into it. That's how I started using it on doors.
As a topper, I use a UV resistant conversion lacquer that wears like iron, and is extremely durable. My own very successful "roof test" of the Behlen's/conversion lacquer for outside use convinced me that it was perfect for inside as well.
but it wasn't >> my house, either.
Link?
Robert
Damn, my reader ate my first reply after I hit the wrong key. (slapping self upside the haid)
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 01:05:22 -0700 (PDT), the infamous " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" scrawled the following:
UV inhibitors in interior finishes, huh? I must have led a sheltered life. Nevahoiduvit.
Yeah, it's all about supply, demand, and budgets.
"We here at Red Dragon Noodle, Machine Tool, and Chinaply Factory are happy to announce integral fuming of all our wood, at no extra cost."
OUCH!
It was only my second contracted piece of furniture, so I plead inexperience and probably won't ever do that again. I wasn't making much money on the job so I didn't even truly consider the wider view of my choice the way I do now.
Sorry, I was thinking "aged cherry".
Interesting. I'll have to look into that.
I haven't used lacquer yet, either, so it's another thing I can look forward to trying.
kitchen, but it wasn't >> my house, either.
A phone call distracted me and I never got refocused.
Here's my fave green marble/granite, complete with golds and blacks: Verde Ubatuba, the same that Mark used on his topless end tables.
Other nice ones:
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