how to buy hardwood?

Hi, folks, I'm following a magazine plan for a file cabinet. It has a handy cutting diagram for all the trim pieces which are cherry.

But, when I go to the wood store, they don't have pieces exactly 6 by

96, for example.

The diagram also gives, parenthetically, 4 board feet.

So, is there a smart way to ask for what I need? In other words, can I just say I need four board feet of cherry, with a minimum length of 24 inches (the longest single piece)?

I know this is kind of a wandering question, but I'm having a hard time getting my brain around this--and the guys at the one place I can go for hardwood are pretty...non-communicative.

And advice?

Thanks! Ds

Reply to
VeryLargeCorp
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Fri, Sep 15, 2006, 11:44am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (VeryLargeCorp) doth cast out: Hi, folks,

Sounds more like a troll then a legit question. But, if not, take your magazine when you talk to the wood store guys.

JOAT I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn well they're after me.

Reply to
J T

Finding a more customer friendly supplier would help. There are always a few that deal with the pros and don't care to help the weekend diy guy. They seem to take pleasure in intimidating the new guy.

First, do you understand the board foot measurement? It works out to 144 cubic inches, but can be in any combination of dimensions.

Can you pick your own wood? If so, figure out what you need and take a tape measure with you. If you need a full 6", you will have to buy a board slightly wider. They may have 6", but may only have 8" so you have to buy the 8" and pay for the scrap that will be left.

Some suppliers have a minimum length that must be left after cutting what you need, others have a full length minimum. They don't want you to buy a 4' piece out of a 5' piece and stick them with too small of a piece to sell. Boards can be in random width and length and they will measure and calculate how many board feet you have after you select them. I always try to buy extra for two reasons. I like to have something in case of an "oops" along the way and having some scraps for little projects down the road.

In your case, specify that you need a minimum of 6" x 24". If all they have is 7", then that is what you get or come back at a later date. It is also possible to glue up two 3" pieces to get what you need. Glue ups are done all the time but have to be planned with some care to get the right appearance on a very visible part.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Which issue of which magazine?

Reply to
B A R R Y

Doesn't sound like a troll to me... I had the same question at one point.

If you need a 8' of 1x6 that is 4 board feet. But so is 6' of 1x8. If your project call fors a 7" wide piece, then one is obviously more useful than the other.

When I first started learning about boardfeet (not long ago), I remember reading that you can go into a lumber yard and tell them you X amount of boardfeet. But what dimensions will you get?? I know now that it doesn't matter, because I go in and just select the peices I need to complete my project. I personally don't understand the usefulness of boardfeet, other than knowing how much you are going to pay for it.

Reply to
Locutus

Thanks for the information. This seems like something that comes from experience, which I'm still getting!

The main thing is to find a friendlier place. These guys do everything with a sigh and a moan and answer questions in monosyllables.

Anyway, I think I'll be able to find what I need with your advice. Thank you!

Ds

Reply to
VeryLargeCorp

I've been cutting up wood for a long time and probably know quite a bit about the stuff. However, the guys at my supplier know more - its their business. Thus, I don't go there to try to act like an expert. I go there to get what I need. Just tell them what you need as an end result and I would assume they will be very helpful. Going there and trying to make it seem as if you know something because you picked up a few tips in here won't do you any good.

Reply to
Joe Bemier

What follows is more philosophical than a definitive answer, but follow along anyway.

In woodworking, that won't do you much good, other than how much it will cost to walk out the door with your prize, or putz, lumber.

If you do that, you'll likely get plenty of bad along with the good. Which means you may end up buying 8 board feet + to finish the project. Sometimes, however, there is no other way ... at first.

Most woodworkers I know would not frequent a place where they were not allowed to pick and choose their own material, so you must learn to deal with these folks and go out of your way to get them on your side.

And always carry a cutlist and tape measure.

Lumber yards are somehow the same the world around. It almost always starts out that way if you're a new customer ... hell, even you're a seasoned pro and get the new salesman. AAMOF, if there are six 'salesman" in the place, you'll get treated six different ways, no matter how long you've been doing business there ... it's not personal.

But, if you're going to be woodworking, you need to make an effort to cultivate a relationship with at least one of your hardwood supplier's "representatives" as quickly as possible.

Pick out one (get the grey haired old man, if there is one) and keep going back to him ... ask for him everytime, and even wait on him if he's busy with another customer.

It is amazing what an informed salesman/representative can find/suggest, or dig up "out back", after he knows you, and you simply ask for his advice _with a cutlist in hand_.

AAMOF, I did just that yesterday, and ended up with 65 bf of some beautiful

8/4 quarter sawn white oak that I would have otherwise never seen ... and this from a place where I have had both personal and commercial accounts for a few years, and after two previous trips earlier in the week ended up with me finding nothing usuable in the "bins" while _my_ usual guy was busy and I didn't have the time to stick around. (He chastised me for that later, and even let me know that I am _his_ customer!)

In short, always take your cutlist, ask for assistance until you get what you want, do your best to make, if not a friend, at least a friendly source of business, and each time you go back it will get easier.

Reply to
Swingman

Once I was calling around the DC area trying to find rough cedar, which, for some reason, was in short supply. At one lumber yard, a guy picked up the phone and instead of saying "hello," continued the conversation he was having in the store. I sat there confused for a moment, not sure if he was talking to me or what. Then he finally greeted me, and I asked if they had rough cedar. He said, "sure, it's rough like your mother-in-law." Naturally, I paused to process this, and in the silence, he said, "why don't you just come down and see."

I guess I have all week to drive all over the gridlocked DC Beltway looking for one thing instead of bothering this poor man with a phone call.

Screw 'em!

Reply to
boorite

I'm going to violate all kinds of etiquette rules here by top-posting, and by not snipping anything at all... but it's for a good reason.

Excellent post, Swingman. This is some of the best advice that's been posted here, on any topic, by any poster, in quite a while.

Reply to
Doug Miller

You never got to the good reason?

Reply to
Locutus

Where are you?

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

Fri, Sep 15, 2006, 2:00pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (boorite) doth lamenteth: Once I was calling I asked if they had rough cedar. He said, "sure, "why don't you just come down and see." I guess I have all week to drive all over the gridlocked DC Beltway looking for one thing instead of bothering this poor man with a phone call. Screw 'em!

You kinda lost me on your motivation there. If I was calling to find out if some place had what I wanted, and they said "yes", then I'd expect to go and look at it, regardless of whta the guy sounded like on the phone.

JOAT I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn well they're after me.

Reply to
J T

I really have to agree... my supplier is really a mom&pop shop with a few apprentices.

They let me disassemble the entire pile to get what I want. I say please thankyou as much as possible (suck up bigtime). Not because I have to, but because I want to; it is in my best interest.

Always put the pile back together neater than you found it.

"cherry picking" (pun intended) is a priviledge and I make sure they know that I understand that and appreciate it.

The last project I was working on required 16/4 cherry (4 inches thick)... not something he normally has, but he emailed me when he got it.

-Steve

Reply to
C&S

I agree with Steve - a good, helpful, friendly hardwood dealer is a wonderful thing, even if you have to look around for a while. Mine is about a 45 minute drive, but absolutely worth it to pick my own stuff and get good help/advice. If I just need something small and am not too picky, they deliver into town here maybe once a week, in which case I work around their schedule to meet them. Sounds like you (the OP) need to find a different dealer, or try once more to take a list of exactly what you need, and expect to buy at LEAST 25% more lumber than is really required for your project. Most places will do surfacing (planing/wide-belt sanding) for a fee, and they shouldn't complain about doing a rough crosscut or two so you can fit the long pieces in your car if necessary. Again, if you tell us roughly where you're located, someone here might be able to recommend a good place. Good luck, Andy

Reply to
Andy

Fri, Sep 15, 2006, 3:38pm (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com (Swingman) doth wisely proclaimeth: What follows is more philosophical than a definitive answer, but follow along anyway.

Works equally as well in those "good" auto parts places. The ones where they don't ask what size engine you've got and all that stuff, and the employees drive things like 454 Vega wagons, primed V-8 '30s Chevy pickups with no rear fenders, or Darth Vader black pickups with 4" exhaust pipes.

JOAT I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn well they're after me.

Reply to
J T

My last hardwood shopping experience was ... well, an experience! I drove over

2.5 hours to a place in south-central PA, to find the perfect piece of 5/4 quilted maple. I didn't have to pick through the pile - the salesman pulled up a forklift, and did it for me. It was a *huge* pile, and it took a couple of hours to find the board I wanted. And they guy seemed happy to work with me the entire time. In the end, my entire purchase (that maple board, and a bunch of other not-as-remarkable wood) came to just around $300. I can't imagine how that pays for the salesman's time.

I'll go back there again, you can bet on it.

Reply to
Art Greenberg

Show your wood guy your plans and let him figure out what you need. Most of them are helpfull.

Reply to
Pat Payne

In addition to the very good information already offered about finding and cultivating knowledgeable and helpful salespersons at your hardwood supplier - I will add: Unlike wood products from your local BORG, hardwood from a real supplier comes in random widths and lengths, and can contain knots and other irregularities. It's up to the consumer (you) to make these pieces into the correct finished dimensions for your project. Understand what a board foot means - basically 12 square inches of rough cut lumber wood that is 1 inch thick. Realize that when a supplier planes the surfaces, and possibly straightline rips a edge, that the piece of wood you're buying will no longer actually be its rough dimensions - 1" thick, or the measured width. And also understand that when a plan or cutting diagram says you need X board foot, you will need to buy more than X - 10-20% more - to have enough to cut out your finished pieces. And maybe even more than that to allow for oopses or pretty grain selection....

Reply to
JeffB

Didn't like their attitude. Needed the irritation less than I needed the cedar. Would rather wait for the Borg to get it than be treated like an idiot just because I'm not there as a contractor. Wasn't sure they had it anyway, or that the guy on the phone heard me or was paying attention.

You kinda lost me on how I lost you. Would you give a dime to a place who treated customers this way if you had a choice? I wouldn't.

Reply to
boorite

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