How old is a Morgan 10A vise?

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I have a badly rusted vise. I think I posted about it a couple years ago when I got it. I'm finally getting geared up to give electrolysis a try, because everything else (heat, liquid wrench, time, vinegar, Coke, 10' cheater bar, sand blaster) has failed to get the screw turning. I'd have done it already, but even my 80-something grandmother has never heard of washing soda, and I have no idea where to get some. The web makes it sound common, but it ain't common around here, unless I'm blind.
I DAGS, and turned up absolutely *nothing* about Morgan except a couple of unanswered questions, which is pretty amazing. The way this looks, I can't believe it's a no-name cheapo, so I'm beginning to think it must be extremely old.
I'm trying to get some sense of how old it is, and how valueable in the great scheme of things. Something comparable would set me back better than $100 at least, so it's worth saving, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a $100 vise or a $150 vise. Based on the amount of iron in this thing, I'd say it's even a $200 vise, but it looks like the $150 Record has it beat on capacity, if not massiveness.
It says MORGAN VISE CO CHICAGO to the left of the screw, and MORGAN 10A VISE to the right. The jaws are 7" wide, and I estimate it would open to about 10" if I could budge it. There's a pop-up dog thingie on the front.
It's *massive*. I'd say by eyeball the guide rods are better than 1" in diameter. I don't own a wrench, not even a Crescent, big enough to get around the nuts on the ends of the rods. It probably weighs somewhere between 40 and 50 pounds.
I don't know how advantageous massive would be, and the screw is significantly pitted after years of rust, so it might never be smooth and sure. Still, it looks like one hell of a vise if I can ever get it going.
If I can't find "washing soda" maybe try Drain-O? That's almost pure lye, isn't it? Yes, I realize it would be caustic as hell, and washing soda would be safer, but mostly I just want to get this thing working if I can.
Also, someone asked this several years ago, and never got an answer. I'll repeat the question. What color should this be painted?
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Most grocery stores and/or hardware stores carry it. Arm & Hammer makes it, among others. The Arm & Hammer washing soda is a *BLUE* box, close to the size of a breakfast cereal box. *Not* the little yellow Arm & hammer box, which is 'baking soda' (aka bicarbonate of soda)
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On 22-Oct-2003, snipped-for-privacy@horatio.agresource.com () wrote:

Specifically, it's called Arm & Hammer "So Clean!" Super Washing Soda. C$4.00 got me a lifetime supply (unless SWMBO starts using it in the laundry).
The various web sites are vague on exactly what is involved. Some say you _must_ use washing soda, others say baking soda might work, others say any alkaline solution will do. As well, some say exactly one tablespoon per gallon, others say the more the merrier.
Any chemists out there that can offer a realistic assessment on the chemistry involved and what can be used, if anything, instead of washing soda?
Mike
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snipped-for-privacy@horatio.agresource.com () wrote:

Around here (Indianapolis), it comes in a big yellow box, weighing 3+ pounds. I've never seen it in a blue box.
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spam snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

spam snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

spam snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

spam snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Yo, Doug. You're pushing this stuff pretty hard. You a "dealer" or maybe an...
investor?
;)
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I've had good success using either the Arm and Hammer washing soda (found in the laundry detergent aisle) or borax (as in 20 Mule Team, also found in the l. d. aisle). As to the Drain-O, I wouldn't.
As an aside, I wonder how Oxy-clean might work...
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Fly-by-Night CC wrote:

Borax we got. I used to stock the laundry detergent at Wal-Mart, and this washing soda stuff just doesn't ring a bell, though I haven't yet gone out to look *hard* since someone mentioned a blue box.

Dunno. What's Oxy-Clean actually made out of? It's worth a shot though, maybe. I have a bucket o' that stuff right here somewhere.
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Wal-Mart does *not* carry it. And I've never seen it in a blue box, only yellow. See my immediately previous post in this thread for a link to a picture.

Are we talking about the acne medicine, or the laundry bleach? The former is salicylic acid, which definitely will not behave in even remotely similar fashion to washing soda. The latter is sodium percarbonate aka sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate -- basically washing soda combined with hyrdrogen peroxide. Probably will work.... but I'm not a chemist, and college chemistry classes were a *long* time ago.
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spam snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Yeah, I don't think Clearasil would work too well - and the quantity'd be damned expensive.
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Silvan wrote:

<snip>
Washing soda is just sodium carbonate. If you look at the ingredients of granular dishwasher detergent you will find that is also sodium carbonate.
I could not locate washing soda in my general area, so I have been using dishwasher detergent for years in this application and it works well.
While electrolysis will work well to remove external rust on the vise, it is probably not the best process for freeing up the screw. In order for electrolyses to work, the electrolyte needs to come in contact with the rust and then permit the rust to migrate towards the anode. The close tolerances of the mating screw surfaces will significantly impede this process.
Try a good penetrating oil to free up the vise screw and then zap the disassembled components to remove the rust.
Tim
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Does it look like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item#53395845&category 761 -- I dont know nothing about washing soda but you didnt mention using any oil to free it up,like a penetrating oil like PB or aerokroil or whatever you have let it soak in oil for a few days Knowledge speaks, wisdom listen..... Jimi Hendrix

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martin wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item#53395845&category 761
Indeed. Only 9", only 25 pounds, and only sold for $62. Hrmph. So much for my magical super vise.

I tried Liquid Wrench, because that's what I had. I've never heard of PB or aerokroil, but I doubt I can get'em at Wal-Mart. :)
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Years ago (and we are talking years ago), Coke was a rust removed/penetrator. It has a LOT of pohosphoric acid in it and would seep down in the crevices and cracks and worked ok except it removed any and all finish you might have on the metal.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:07:51 -0400, Silvan

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Most grocery stores here (Indianapolis) have it, on the same aisle as laundry detergent. If you can find the Borax, the washing soda will be nearby. Hardware stores (the real ones, like Ace, not HD or Lowe's) are likely to have it too. If you can't get it where you live, drop me an email (see sig line) and I can send you some. Fair warning: it'll cost 2-3x as much for shipping as for the soda. It comes in 55-ounce boxes that cost about two-fifty US.
I'm *amazed* that your grandmother has never heard of washing soda. Perhaps she knows it by a different name (sal soda, carbonate of soda, maybe even soda ash). Ask her what she used for washing clothes when she was young, or what her mother used.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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So you know what you're looking for, there's a picture of the box at the top of this page: http://tinyurl.com/rvol
Full URL: http://www.thelaundrybasket . com/Questions_Comments/Questions_Comments_Super_Washing_Soda/questions_comment s_super_washi.html
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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: Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621 : http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407 /
I picked up one of those vises at a garage sale a month or 2 ago. The one I picked up has a quick release set-up on the screw to allow you to slide the vise in and out then tighten it up. A little different than todays vises with the release bar. Only paid $5.00 for the vise. I have not been able to find any info on them either. It will work good with my Record vise :
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:17:15 -0400, Silvan

Cool.
Remember that the face of the thread is the contact point, so it may look worse than it might feel. Are the thread faces themselves badly pitted? If so, it may not be worthwhile messing with. If not, give *b*y a go.

Heat the casting with a propane torch and let it cool some while tapping on the end with a little sledge hammer to let it -know- you want it to move. Spray on some WD/LiquidWrench/Croil (last one highly touted) and try it once it finishes cooling.
Alternatively, heat the casting while cooling the screw with freon. Grease the uncooled side so it fills the hot casting with a good moly w/b grease as you get it to move. Some will be absorbed into the casting as it cools, helping prevent future seizures.

"Beige." was the answer that popped into my mind at that point. It reminded me somehow of the yewish joke "What did the yewish american princess say just as you were about done making love?" "Beige. Yes, I think I'll paint the ceiling beige."
---- A mostly meat-powered woodworker, and proud of it. http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
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Freon? You're joking, right?
Mike
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Freon, well if you wanted to kill yourself......
Michael Daly wrote:

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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:33:30 GMT, "Michael Daly"

Would "New/Improved Ozone-Safe Coolant" be preferred, sir?
Correction on my last post: it's Kroil, with a "k", not "c".
And add that a Large Front Vise 70G08.02 for $70 from LVT might be a heap lot less trouble than salvaging that rusty vise.
---- A mostly meat-powered woodworker, and proud of it. http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
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